WELCOME. IT'S A LITTLE AFTER 3 P.M.. I'M GOING TO CHECK IN THE BACK, MAKE SURE EVERYBODY'S GOOD. [00:00:06] MR. FREEMAN, YOU GOOD? YES, SIR. OKAY, MS. CITY SECRETARY. DID YOU GET SETTLED IN OVER THERE? YES, SIR. WE'LL GO AHEAD AND RECOGNIZE A QUORUM. CALL OURSELVES TO ORDER HERE TO A SPECIAL MEETING. A FEW BUSINESS ITEMS WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF. WE'LL KICK THIS OFF WITH PUBLIC COMMENT. GOING TO ASK CITY SECRETARY TO READ US INTO THIS. THANK YOU. MAYOR. THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATING IN TODAY'S CITY COUNCIL MEETING. [1. Public Comment] WE VALUE YOUR INPUT AND APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TIME TO SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS TODAY. EACH SPEAKER TODAY WILL HAVE THREE MINUTES TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL DURING PUBLIC COMMENT, OR EITHER OF OUR TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS. AT 2.5 MINUTES. A SINGLE BEEP WILL SIGNAL 30 SECONDS REMAINING. WHEN TIME IS UP, THE TIMER WILL BEEP CONTINUOUSLY. PLEASE STAY WITHIN YOUR ALLOTTED TIME. WE HAVE MULTIPLE PUBLIC HEARINGS TODAY. IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK ON AN ITEM WITH THE PUBLIC HEARING, PLEASE DO SO EITHER DURING PUBLIC COMMENT OR DURING THAT PUBLIC HEARING, BUT NOT BOTH IN ORDER TO ENSURE ACCURATE RECORDS. WE'LL BE USING BOTH PODIUMS TODAY. WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY SIGNED UP AT THIS POINT IN TIME, SO WE'LL INVITE SOMEONE UP ONCE WE'RE READY. JUST A REMINDER FOR TOPICS NOT ON TODAY'S AGENDA, THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT LIMITS HOW COUNCIL MAY RESPOND. COUNCIL MAY PROVIDE FACTUAL STATEMENTS, ASK FOR THE ISSUE TO BE ADDED TO A FUTURE AGENDA, OR REFER YOU TO THE CITY MANAGER SO STAFF CAN VISIT WITH YOU ABOUT YOUR CONCERN. SO AT THIS TIME, I WOULD OPEN IT TO ANYBODY THAT WISHES TO GIVE PUBLIC COMMENT. MIKE FISHER. ALL RIGHT. I'LL SAVE A BIG PART OF MINE FOR DURING THE BUDGET. SO I'LL JUST TALK ABOUT LES SIMPSON. LES SIMPSON. I'D LIKE FOR YOU TO HAVE THE SAME PERSONALITY THAT YOU'VE HAD SINCE THE BEGINNING WHEN YOU KNOW, YOU'RE A BIG PART OF WHAT'S WHY OUR BUDGET IS WHERE IT'S AT RIGHT NOW. AND YOU WERE IN THE LGC AND THE WHAT ELSE WAS IT CALLED? THE DOWNTOWN INC OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WHENEVER WE THE, THE DOWNTOWN CATALYST, THE HOTEL, THE PARKING GARAGES. BUT YOU KNOW, NOW YOU SEEM TO BE SINGING A DIFFERENT TUNE. WE, YOU KNOW, WE CREATED ALL THIS STUFF. WE DOUBLED THE BUDGET. WE SOLD THE RETAIL PROPERTY ACROSS THE STREET AFTER NOBODY WOULD RENT IT FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR, PROBABLY. I DON'T KNOW, 10% OF WHAT WE SPENT TO BUILD IT. AND THEN YOU, YOU WERE HERE NOW, AND YOU VOTED TO SELL IT, AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU SEEM TO BE CAMPAIGNING FROM THE DAIS AND PANDERING BECAUSE YOU HAVE A COMPLETE DIFFERENT PERSONALITY LATELY. LIKE, THERE'S SOME CAMPAIGN MANAGERS KIND OF POINT YOU IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION BECAUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE FIGHTING FOR THE TAXPAYERS AND YOU'RE UP HERE LIKE LAST WEEK SAYING YOU'RE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR SOMETHING, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR GIVING THE CITY MANAGER THE $300,000 OR WHATEVER IT WAS OR PAYING HIM. ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT 300 K WHEN YOU SPENT MILLIONS, MILLIONS. I'M GOING TO HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT. I'M GOING TO BRING ALL THAT BACK. AND THIS DOCTOR JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE STUFF IS NOT GOING TO WORK. AND I ASK YOU TO QUIT DOING THAT FROM HERE BECAUSE IT'S OBVIOUS WHAT YOU'RE DOING. I MEAN, JUST A FEW MEETINGS AGO, YOU WERE LIKE, ALMOST CROSS-EXAMINING EVERYBODY THAT WAS TALKING ABOUT DOING A FORENSIC AUDIT, ACTING LIKE WHAT'S HAPPENED? NOTHING'S HAPPENED TO CAUSE A FORENSIC AUDIT. REALLY? WE GOT THE RANGE. YOU'VE GOT YOU GOT ALL THIS MISSING? YOU GOT THE THE LANDFILL PROBLEM. YOU GOT THE WATER BILLS, ALL THESE ISSUES. I MEAN, JUST TONS OF THINGS GOING ON. AND YOU ACTED LIKE THERE WASN'T A SINGLE THING GOING ON. YOU MUST YOU MUST HAVE HAD ALAN RHODES OR SOMEBODY OVER THERE UNDERWOOD GIVE YOU SOME CROSS-EXAMINING SKILLS BECAUSE, MAN, IT WAS CRAZY, LIKE YOU WERE LOCKED AND LOADED TO REALLY PUT THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE THE PEOPLE THAT YOU EVEN ASKED THE AUDITOR, HAVE YOU FOUND ANYTHING THAT DESERVES AN INTERNAL OR AN AUDIT? ANYTHING WRONG? 40 MILLION FOUND IN TIPS MONEY. WE WE ENDED UP I'LL TALK ABOUT THE MONEY PART DURING THE BUDGET, BUT MY TIME IS RUNNING OUT, BUT JUST STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND YOU DO YOUR CAMPAIGNING ON YOUR OWN TIME. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SIR. DO WE HAVE ANYONE ELSE SIGNED UP HERE TODAY? MISS CITY SECRETARY? NO, SIR. DO I HAVE ANYONE HERE THAT WOULD LIKE TO RAISE THEIR HAND AND OFFER PUBLIC COMMENT? OKAY. WE'LL STILL HAVE PUBLIC HEARINGS. SO IF ANYBODY WANTS TO SPEAK ON EITHER OF THOSE, WE'LL DO THAT THEN. [00:05:05] AT THIS TIME I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION ONE. MOVE INTO NON CONSENT AGENDA. ITEM 2.1 IS A PUBLIC HEARING. [2.1. PUBLIC HEARING ON FISCAL YEAR 2026/2027 BUDGET: This Budget will raise more revenue from property taxes than last year’s budget by $2,063,963 which is a 2.58% increase from last year’s budget. The property tax revenue to be raised from new property added to the tax roll this year is $1,295,675.] BEFORE WE JUMP INTO THE PUBLIC HEARING, I'M GOING TO ASK OUR ACTING CITY MANAGER IF HE HAS ANYTHING HE'D LIKE TO ADD. IF COUNCIL WOULD LIKE, I COULD GO THROUGH THE SAME PRESENTATION AS LAST WEEK, JUST AS A PRIMER TO THE PUBLIC HEARING, OR WE CAN GO STRAIGHT INTO THE PUBLIC HEARING. YES. SO COUNCIL WE WILL ASK IF YOU GUYS WOULD LIKE TO SEE A BRIEF PRESENTATION. I KNOW YOU GUYS APPRECIATE BRIEF PRESENTATIONS. AND WE CAN GO BACK THROUGH THAT, BUT THEN WE ALSO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR DISCUSSION BEFORE, DURING OR AFTER PUBLIC HEARING. ANY GUIDANCE FROM COUNCIL? OKAY. THANK YOU. SO AT THIS TIME, WE WE'RE GOING TO OPEN UP THE FLOOR FOR COUNCIL. I'M GOING TO ASK COUNCIL DO YOU HAVE ANY STATEMENTS OR ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO SAY REGARDING THE PROPOSED BUDGET IN ITS CURRENT FORM? ANYBODY FOR DISCUSSION? ANYTHING YOU'RE THINKING NEEDS TO MOVE CHANGE BE CONSIDERED. COUNCIL. I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING THAT I WOULD WANT CHANGED, BUT AT THE APPROPRIATE POINT I WOULD I DO HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT HOW THIS BUDGET PROCESS WENT AND MAYBE WHAT WE COULD LOOK AT MOVING FORWARD. SO I DON'T KNOW WHEN THE RIGHT TIME WOULD BE FOR THAT. JUST, JUST. OKAY. WELL JUST IN THE DECORUM, I WOULD ASK THAT THE COMMENT NOT COME DURING THE VOTE, BUT PRIOR TO THE VOTE, I THINK WOULD BE VERY FITTING. SURE. LET ME START WITH BEFORE WE DO PUBLIC HEARING. LET ME START WITH WATER RATES AND JUST MAKE SURE COUNCIL'S HEARING EVERYTHING IN THE THOUGHT PROCESS THERE. SO PROPOSED WATER RATE INCREASE ON WATER AND SEWER IS 8%. THEN PROPOSED FUTURE DEBT INCREASE IS AN ADDITIONAL 3%. NOW THAT BRINGS A TOTAL OF AN 11% INCREASE. NOW, I WOULDN'T SAY THAT ANY OF OUR TIME EFFORT, ENERGY IS NOT BEEN WELL SPENT ON DIGGING IN DESIGN PLANNING STRATEGY FOR THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT. I WOULDN'T EVER SAY THAT WE ARE ON TOP OF ALL OF THE POTENTIAL WATER MAIN LINE REPAIRS, MAIN BREAKS, ALL OF THE MANY THINGS THAT CONTINUE THAT ARE UNDERNEATH OUR FEET ON A DAILY BASIS THAT ARE 50 PLUS YEARS OLD. SO WE DON'T HAVE A LACK OF THINGS THAT WE NEED TO PREPARE FOR. HOWEVER, WE ARE PREPARING IN ADVANCE OF WHAT HOPEFULLY WILL BE SOME EXPERTISE IN A CONSULTING FIRM THAT COMES IN AND HAS FULLY EVALUATED NOT ONLY OUR WATER DEPARTMENT, BUT THE WASTEWATER AND HOW THAT AFFECTS THE POTENTIAL DEBT INCURRED, THE DEBT PAYMENTS AND THE BILLING RATES THAT NEED TO GO OUT. SO AS WE ARE TRYING TO ASSESS A BALANCED BUDGET, I THINK THIS BUDGET IS VERY BALANCED. I APPRECIATE WHERE WE'RE LANDING, THOUGH I MAY CONCUR WITH SOME OF COUNCILMAN SIMPSON AND OTHERS ON HOW WE GOT HERE WASN'T NECESSARILY VERY APPEALING, BUT WHERE WE'RE LANDING, I THINK CAN BE A VERY GOOD, HEALTHY, BALANCED BUDGET. AND WE'VE, WORKED HARD. HOWEVER, WE DON'T HAVE A KEY COMPONENT IN ASSESSING WHAT THAT RATE NEEDS TO BE. SO WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO, ALMOST LIKE WHEN YOU SET THE TAX RATE CEILING, YOU'RE KIND OF SAYING, HEY, THIS IS THIS IS THE MOST WE THINK WE WOULD NEED IF WE DO MOVE TODAY TO PULL THIS IN AND WE COMMUNICATE TO OUR CUSTOMERS AND OUR TAXPAYING CITIZENS AND THOSE PEOPLE THAT RELY ON US, THAT IT COULD BE AN 11%. LET'S DO A THOROUGH DISCUSSION EVALUATION. LET'S LISTEN AND SEE WHAT WE CAN GLEAN FROM THAT, THAT CONSULTING REPORT. AND IF IT COMES BACK, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY NEEDED A 6% INCREASE IN ORDER TO COVER EVERYTHING. AND THAT BUILDS IN AS MUCH REPAIR AS YOU'RE GOING TO GET TO. NOT EVEN ON THE AVERAGE. LET'S JUST PICK THE HIGH YEAR, RIGHT? THEN LET'S POTENTIALLY CONSIDER A RATE DEDUCTION IF WE HAD THAT. AND SO IF WE NEEDED TO DO THAT, LET'S BE PREPARED TO DO THAT. THAT WOULD COME IN THE FORM OF A BUDGET AMENDMENT. THERE'S NOTHING KEEPING COUNCIL FROM DOING THAT. AND WHAT I'M REALLY TRYING TO GET IN FRONT OF IS I WANT OUR RATEPAYERS TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE NOT JUST TRYING TO FRONT LOAD EVERY BUDGET FOR WORST CASE SCENARIO. THEN WE GET TO THE END OF THE YEAR AND WE HAVE MORE THAN WE NEEDED. THOSE PEOPLE US RIGHT AS WE'RE BALANCING, OH, $6.50 PER GALLON DIESEL AS WE'RE BALANCING A [00:10:05] $400 PER WEEK GROCERY BILL. I DON'T WANT TO BALANCE A $300 A MONTH WATER BILL IF I DON'T HAVE TO. RIGHT. EVEN IF IT'S 250, I GO BACK TO COUNCILMAN SIMPSONS QUOTES OR STATEMENTS ON TAX RELIEF. WELL, IF WE DO THE TAX RELIEF HERE TODAY, WE CAN SAVE YOU A DOLLAR A MONTH, A DOLLAR 12. MAYBE IT'S $1.90. I DON'T KNOW. BUT AT $50 PER MONTH ON A WATER BILL, THAT'S A $600 A YEAR INCREASE. AND SO SOME OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT RESIDE AND RELY ON THAT FIRST TIER NEED TO HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT THEY CAN STAY THERE. AND SO $50 A MONTH CAN BE, YOU KNOW, AN IMBALANCED BUDGET FOR SOMEBODY'S HOUSEHOLD. NOW I SAY ALL THAT TO SAY, I WOULD ASK COUNCIL TO CONSIDER ADJUSTING THE TIERS RIGHT NOW. YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY I DON'T KNOW THESE NUMBERS, BUT DONNY COULD HELP ME. BUT ZERO GALLONS TO 10,000 GALLONS. 10,000 GALLONS TO 50,000 GALLONS, 50 AND UP. RIGHT. THAT'S WHERE WE SEE THOSE RATES GO FROM 4.50 TO 6.50 TO $8 OR WHATEVER THEY ARE. SO MAYBE IT'S NOT EVEN A RATE DECREASE. MAYBE IT'S AN ADJUSTMENT SO THAT WE CAN PRESERVE THOSE PEOPLE DOWN IN THAT FIRST TIER A LITTLE BIT MORE. IF WE DO SEE AN INCREASE ACCURACY, MAYBE YOU'RE NOT USING 8000 GALLONS A MONTH LIKE YOU THOUGHT, MAYBE IT'S REALLY 10,000, ONE HUNDRED GALLONS AND YOU'RE GETTING KIND OF TRAPPED IN SOME OF THAT. AND SO THAT'S INCREMENTAL. IT DOESN'T READJUST THE WHOLE THING, BUT IT SURE CAN'T CATCH UP TO YOU WHEN YOU HAVE A HOT, DRY SUMMER LIKE WE'VE SEEN. SO I SAY ALL THAT JUST BECAUSE THE ONE THING IN THIS BUDGET THAT I REALLY WOULD PULL OUT, I WOULD PULL OUT THE 8%, I WOULD PULL OUT THE 3%. AND IT'S NOT BECAUSE I KNOW BETTER. IT'S BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW YET. RIGHT. AND WE NEED TO SIT AND WAIT UNTIL WE KNOW BETTER OR WE KNOW BEST. AND SO COUNCIL, I'M GOING TO LEAVE IT THERE, TAKE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION, AND IF NOT, WE'LL MOVE INTO A PUBLIC HEARING. MAYOR, I THINK THAT'S A THAT'S A GOOD IDEA, BUT I'M CONCERNED WITH WITH WATER RESOURCES, ACRE FEET, AVAILABILITY, CRMWA THE BIG EXPENSES THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE ON AVERAGE, EACH 12% INCREASE PER THOUSAND GALLONS AT $0.40 ON THE GALLON. I THINK THAT IF WE HAVE BETTER INFORMATION, I WOULD SUPPORT THAT. BUT I'M VERY CONCERNED. WATER IS GOING UP AT 8 TO 12% PER UNIT, WHATEVER UNIT THAT IS GALLON, ACRE FEET, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT YEAR ON YEAR. AND THOSE COSTS BEFORE WE MADE THAT ADJUSTMENT, I WOULD WANT TO SEE SOME MORE DATA THAT SUPPORTED THAT. NOT THAT I DON'T SUPPORT THAT. AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO WEATHER ALL ECONOMIC CONDITIONS WITH THE MOST VITAL RESOURCE WE HAVE, AND THAT IS NOT GOING TO DIMINISH WATER AND WE DON'T NEED TO WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS WE NEED TO DO TO CONTINUE TO GET READY FOR THE GROWTH THAT WE'RE SEEING AS A CITY, AND ALSO BEING READY AS A CITY THAT COULD BE ANOTHER BILLION DOLLAR SPEND WHEN WE HOOK INTO CRMWA TOO. THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS. YEAH. AND YOU ALWAYS COME AT IT WITH A VERY PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS MIND. AND SO I APPRECIATE THAT. AND WE DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE A FALSE CONFIDENCE OR A LOWER RATE. AND THEN WE'RE PUSHING THIS OFF. WE'VE DONE A GREAT JOB OVER THE LAST COUPLE COUNCILS. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'VE KICKED ONE CAN, BUT IF WE DID WE DIDN'T KICK IT VERY FAR. AND SO ONE THING THAT COMES TO MIND WE I WILL NEED HELP WITH THE TERMINOLOGY OR YOU GUYS CAN RENAME IT, BUT A CONSERVATION CREDIT, MAYBE IT'S NOT A RATE ADJUSTMENT, MAYBE IT'S NOT A TIER ADJUSTMENT. MAYBE IT'S JUST THOSE USERS THAT CAN SERVE THAT WATER BECAUSE WE'RE ALL IN A WATER CONSERVATION INTEREST. WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE VALUE OF WATER AND THE NEED FOR WATER, MAYBE THERE'S A CONSERVATION CREDIT THAT GETS APPLIED TO THESE BILLS BASED ON A LACK OF USAGE. AND SO HOWEVER WE CAN WALK THAT IN WHERE IT'S LOGISTICALLY EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE. I'M GOOD AT, BUT I HEAR EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. YOU WOULD NEED MORE DATA. AND THEN YOU'RE HEARING MY CONCERNS. I HEAR YOUR CONCERNS. AND I STILL SIT WITH NOT YET. I JUST DON'T KNOW ENOUGH YET. AND SO TO GIVE THE PUBLIC, MAYBE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHEN THAT EXPERT IS GOING TO COME AND GIVE THAT PRESENTATION. IS THAT OCTOBER 20TH? SO THE OCTOBER MEETING IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE ABOUT THE UTILITY BILLING AUDIT THAT HE DID. AND THEN WE WOULD FOLLOW UP WITH A FURTHER RATE DISCUSSION IN GENERAL AFTER THAT. DOES HE? HE ALREADY STARTED OUT ON THAT RATE. YOU KNOW, QUERY CAN HE STILL SPEAK TO THAT? BECAUSE I HATE TO BRING HIM HERE, AND SPEND THE MONEY TO GET HIM IN TOWN, [00:15:05] NOT MAXIMIZE OUR TIME WITH HIM. YEAH. HE'S BEEN MAKING PROGRESS ON IT. I CAN TOUCH BASE WITH HIM AND SEE IF WE CAN DO A COMBINED UPDATE, OR AT LEAST TOUCH ON THE STATUS OF WHAT HIS WORK HAS BEEN LOOKING AT SO FAR. I DEFINITELY THINK HE NEEDS TO BE PREPARED TO ANSWER SOME HIGHER LEVEL QUESTIONS AND GIVE LIKE A DIRECTION OR AN UPDATE. I DON'T WANT TO GO THROUGH A MEETING IN OCTOBER AND PURPOSEFULLY NOT BE ABLE TO DISCUSS SOMETHING AS CRITICAL AS THE RATE, COST AND POTENTIAL, YOU KNOW, TIER RECONSTRUCTION OR HOWEVER WE CATEGORIZE THAT. WE CAN DO THAT. PERFECT. COUNCIL. YEAH. TWO THINGS, MAYOR WHAT I HEAR YOU SAYING IS THAT YOU'D REALLY LIKE TO SAY THE LOW VOLUME WATER USER, THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE SAYING PROBABLY HAS THE BIGGEST IMPACT ON PEOPLE. LIKE YOU'RE SAYING $50 A MONTH. I MEAN, THAT'S, PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL. SO YOU'RE SAYING REDO THE TIERS IN THE WATER USAGE, WHICH I DON'T THINK WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, RIGHT, TO WHERE IT AFFECTS THE GREATEST IMPACT OF THE SAVINGS WOULD BE AT THE LOWER VOLUME WATER USE. IS THAT CORRECT? YES, SIR. AND WHAT I WOULD BE CONSIDERING WOULD BE MAYBE WE DO HAVE AN 8% INCREASE OR A EIGHT AND A THREE ON DIFFERENT TIERS. BUT ON THAT ONE MUCH LIKE WE'RE HOLDING THE TAX RATE FLAT, MAYBE WE COULD HOLD THAT EXISTING RATE FLAT, AND THEN WE JUST NEED AN EXPERT TO TELL US HOW MUCH WOULD THAT COST YOU IN REVENUE. AND SO IF DOWN AT THAT BASELINE TIER WHERE IT'S THE MOST CRITICAL. IT HITS OUR $100 MILLION BUDGET, $1 MILLION. BUT IT HITS THEIR BUDGET AT A POTENTIAL OF $20 $30 PER MONTH. I THINK THAT'S I THINK THAT'S A GOOD COMPROMISE. SO THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR. THAT'S WHERE I'M DRIVING. SO THAT'S THE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION YOU WANT TO KNOW. WHEN YOU'RE SAYING YOU DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE ADOPTING THIS UNTIL YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, IS THAT THE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION YOU WANT? THAT IS THE INFORMATION THAT IS THE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION I'M LOOKING FOR. SO YOU'RE HEARING ME THERE, BUT I DON'T WANT TO SAY I'M NOT COMFORTABLE IN ADOPTING THIS BECAUSE IT'S A RATE THERE'S NOTHING THAT WOULD KEEP US FROM MOVING FORWARD WITH A VOTE HERE TODAY IN ITS ENTIRETY, AS PRESENTED, BUT WITH A WILLINGNESS. AND SO I DON'T WANT TO HOLD SOMETHING IN MY BACK POCKET THAT I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS FEEL SURPRISED ON. THAT'S WHY I'M PUTTING IT OUT HERE TODAY. I WOULD CALL AN ITEM ON THE AGENDA FOR A POTENTIAL BUDGET AMENDMENT THAT WOULD LOWER THAT RATE, RESTRUCTURE THAT RATE OR APPLY THAT RATE IN DIFFERENT FASHION. ONCE WE HAVE THAT, THAT EXPERT AND HIS, I'D SAY FULL EVAL. SO YOU WANT THE ANALYZATION OF THE WATER USAGE PER USER. IF WE ADJUST THE RATES HAVE A TIERED SYSTEM TO SEE THE IMPACT ON THE FINAL BUDGET. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. ESSENTIALLY, WHEN WE HAD MR. ECKERT HERE PREVIOUSLY, WE ASKED HIM, BASED ON THE ACCURACY OF THESE NEW METERS, ARE WE GOING TO SEE ENOUGH NEW REVENUES THAT ARE COMING IN THAT WE WOULDN'T BE INCREASING 8% ON THAT RATE IN ORDER TO COVER ALL OF OUR COSTS, WE WOULD ONLY INCREASE 5%. WHEN RICH GAGNON WAS HERE, HE WAS TELLING US THAT HE WAS SEEING SOMEWHERE CLOSE TO A 10% INCREASE ON SOME OF THOSE BILLINGS THAT HE WAS LOOKING AT THAT WERE ACCURATE BILLINGS. THEY JUST WERE HIGHER ON AVERAGE, CLOSE TO 10% THAN WHAT THEY HAD BEEN. AND THAT'S WHERE THE CONVERSATION STARTED OF WE MAY HAVE A MORE ACCURATE WAY TO METER THE WATER, AND THAT MAY ACTUALLY INCREASE OUR REVENUES. IF IT DOES, THEN WE WANT TO BE CONSIDERATE OF THAT AND POTENTIALLY LOOK AT LOWERING THE RATE IN ORDER TO OFFSET SOME OF THAT REVENUE. AS, AS WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO ANTICIPATE THE HIGHER REVENUES TO COVER ALL OUR DEBT SERVICE AND REPAIRS. YEAH. DONNY, DO WE HAVE EXCESS REVENUE IN WATER, SEWER OR DRAINAGE? NO. LET ME JUST PUT IT TO YOU THIS WAY. SO WHAT WE PREPARED IN CIP AND A LOT OF THE REASON YOU'RE SEEING THAT 8% IS BECAUSE WE WERE TRYING TO PROJECT AHEAD TO DO AS MUCH AS WE COULD WITH WHAT WE HAD, WHICH WOULD BE THE 14, IT'S LIKE 14.9 MILLION. WE HAVE IDENTIFIED $247 MILLION WORTH OF PROJECTS THAT HAVE TO BE DONE IN WATER AND SEWER. AND YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS AT ALL THAT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE EXISTING WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS. IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE EXISTING WATER TANKS AND TOWERS, WATER LINES, SEWER LINES. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A 20 INCH WATER MAIN THAT GOES OUT TO OUT ON HIGHWAY 60 THAT WE JUST HAD A BIG LEAK ON HERE RECENTLY. IT WAS PUT IN IN 1943. THAT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM AT SOME POINT IN TIME. WE HAVE LIFT STATIONS. THERE'S 50 SOME ODD LIFT STATIONS THAT SOME OF THOSE NEED REPAIRS. WE HAVE. I MEAN, I HAVE A WHOLE LIST OF THEM. SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS NOT ASK FOR EVERYTHING THAT WE NEED, BUT HAVE SOME TYPE OF A CUSHION THAT WE CAN PAY FOR THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO HAPPEN WITHIN THIS YEAR. BASED ON COUNCIL'S DIRECTION YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU TOLD US LAST YEAR WAS THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO BE THE COUNCIL TO KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD. WE WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF [00:20:04] YOU. WE WANT TO KNOW THE EXPENSES THAT YOU HAVE COMING UP. AND WE HAVE, WE HAVE DONE A VERY GOOD JOB OF PUTTING ALL THAT IN WHAT WE CALL A FIVE YEAR PLAN, KNOWING THAT WE DON'T KNOW WHICH PIECE IS GOING TO BREAK NEXT. AND WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME MONEY SET ASIDE SO WE CAN MAKE THOSE REPAIRS. SO JUST SPEAKING TO THE 14.9 MILLION, IT COULD BE THE ASK COULD BE A LOT MORE THAN THAT. AGAIN 247 JUST COMING UP IN YEARS TWO AND THREE OF THAT CIP PLAN THAT WE DON'T HAVE FUNDING FOR AS WELL. SO DO AS MUCH AS WE CAN THIS YEAR. TRY TO COME UP WITH A NEW BUDGET NEXT YEAR. BUT THESE ARE ALL REAL THINGS THAT ARE IN FRONT OF US THAT WE DON'T WANT TO COME BACK TO COUNCIL AND SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T ASK FOR IT. AND NOW IT'S ALL BROKEN AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX IT. AND WE NEED $20 MILLION FOR THIS AND WE NEED $30 MILLION FOR THAT. YOU KNOW, A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT JUST REAL QUICK IS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT SOME OF THOSE THINGS THAT WERE ON THE LIST, I JUST I HIGHLIGHTED A FEW THINGS IN THERE, 40 MILLION FOR LIFT STATION 40 UPGRADES AND REPLACEMENTS. THAT HAS TO HAPPEN, 20 INCH WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT DONE IN THE 1940S. THAT'S GOT TO HAPPEN AT SOME POINT IN TIME, WE'RE GOING TO END UP HAVING MORE AND MORE REPAIRS ON THOSE THINGS. AND THE LIST JUST GOES ON AND ON. LIFT STATIONS THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE SOME OF THE PUBLIC COMMENT IS ABOUT ARE MCC UNITS AT THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS, THINGS LIKE THAT HAVE NOT BEEN REPAIRED IN A LONG TIME AND THEY NEED TO BE REPAIRED. WE CAN WE LIMP THEM ALONG AS BEST WE CAN, YOU KNOW, WE JUST HAD SOME RECENT, REPAIRS ELECTRICALLY THAT CAME UP IN OUR EFFLUENT SYSTEM THAT GOES OUT TO XCEL. IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE STUFF WHEN YOU HAVE TO GO IN AND REPAIR IT. YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF MILLION DOLLARS AT A TIME. SO THAT'S WHAT THE ASK IS FOR. AND THAT'S WHY WE LANDED ON THAT 8%, SO THAT WE KNEW THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO FUND THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE COMING UP AS BEST WE CAN AND, GET TO THE NEXT YEAR SO WE CAN REEVALUATE AND SEE WHAT ALL WE GOT DONE. AND I HOPE THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION. YEAH. IT DOES. DO WE CURRENTLY HAVE A TIERED BILLING SYSTEM ON THE COMMERCIAL SIDE? I'M NOT THE BILLING GURU, SO. YES WE DO. IT GOES FROM 0 TO $3000. $3001 TO $10,000 OVER $10,000. SO WE'VE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF A MODEL. WE ADDED THAT I BELIEVE IT WAS THE LAST YEAR WE ALL ASKED FOR A COMMERCIAL BREAKDOWN. AND THEN WE'VE GOT THE RESIDENTIAL TIERS AS WELL. YEAH, WE DO HAVE THE RESIDENTIAL TIERS. YES. SO WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO CHARGE DIFFERENT RATES AT DIFFERENT TIERS. YES. THERE WAS A YEAR THAT WE DIDN'T TOUCH THAT LOWEST TIER. RIGHT. THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. COUNCILMAN REID. YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYBODY UP HERE ON THE DAIS THAT LIKES THE IDEA OF THE FEES, BECAUSE IT IS KIND OF A A HIDDEN TAX IN A WAY, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU SEE INCREASES OF 8% AND HIGHER. BUT ARE THE THINGS THAT THE CITY DELIVERS, THE SERVICES THAT WE DELIVER AS A CITY, THE MOST IMPORTANT IS WATER. WE CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT IT THAT'S A KNOWN THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. AND IT COSTS TO GET THOSE THINGS DELIVERED TO A CITY AS IT GROWS. AND SO IT'S A THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT'S IT'S REALLY HARD TO PREDICT WHERE IT'S GOING TO FALL. AND I APPRECIATE WITH WHAT YOU SAID, DONNY, AS FAR AS THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF PROJECTS THAT WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT THAT WE COULDN'T POSSIBLY DO IN A ONE YEAR BUDGET ANYWAY. OTHERWISE THE INCREASES WOULD BE. WELL, NONE OF US WOULD BE SITTING HERE WITH THOSE INCREASES. SO THIS IS A TOUGH THING AND I APPRECIATE WHAT THE WAY THAT YOU WANT TO TAKE THIS MAYOR LOOK AT WHAT WE MIGHT HAVE IN EXCESS AS WE GO DOWN THE ROAD AND MAKE THOSE ADJUSTMENTS IN THE BUDGET. THAT MAY HELP THE TAXPAYER AND THE UTILITY PAYERS THAT PAY FOR THESE SERVICES. IT'S NOT A, IT'S NOT A GREAT PLACE TO BE TO SAY, WE'RE GOING TO RAISE YOUR TAXES WITH THE RATE THAT WE'RE GOING TO ADOPT. AND THEN IN THERE ARE THOSE FEE RATES. AND I THINK THAT AS WE LOOK DOWN THE ROAD, I WISH THERE WAS A WAY THAT WE COULD GET AWAY FROM THAT IN INCREASING FEES AT THESE RATES. AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS, BUT I THINK OVER THE NEXT YEAR OR SO, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT. BECAUSE I KNOW THE TAXPAYERS THEY DON'T APPRECIATE THOSE AS WE WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE GOING TO ADD NEW FEES OR WE INCREASE THOSE IT'S ALMOST BETTER TO PUT IT INTO THE BUDGET AND LET THEM KNOW WHAT THE TAX INCREASE IS GOING TO BE, RATHER THAN HITTING WITH FEES ON A SEPARATE BILL. BUT I APPRECIATE THE DIRECTION YOU WANT TO TAKE THIS. I THINK THAT'S A SMART WAY TO DO IT AS OPPOSED TO OTHERWISE WE'RE NOT PASSING A BUDGET TODAY. RIGHT. AND I'M NOT SLOWING ANYTHING DOWN ON THE BUDGET. I THINK COUNCIL ALWAYS HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK BACK AND POTENTIALLY AMEND. AND THEN LET ME NUTSHELL THIS. IF WE HAD AN EXPERT THAT CAME IN AND SAID, ON AVERAGE, WE ARE SEEING A 5% INCREASE IN [00:25:03] REVENUES BASED ON AN IMPROVED ACCURACY. AND WE SAY, OKAY, WELL, WE WANT TO INCREASE THE BILL 8% BASED ON A ZERO FACTOR. WELL NOW WE'VE GOT A 5% AND 8%, WE REALLY INCREASED IT 13%. I DON'T WANT TO OVER REVENUE IN YEAR ONE, KNOWING THAT FUTURE MAYOR FUTURE COUNCILS, THEY'RE GOING TO THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE HEAVIER LIFT. THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE BIGGER BATTLE AS YOU REALLY TAKE ON THAT PROJECT AS WASTEWATER TREATMENT GETS GOING DIESEL PRICES GO FROM $6.50 TO 8 BUCKS. I THINK YOU CAN PROBABLY FACTOR PERCENTAGE WISE OF COST INCREASES ON CONSTRUCTION. SO LET'S NOT OVER PLAY ANYTHING THAT WE AND LET'S CONTINUE TO TRY TO EARN AND MAINTAIN THAT TRUST, KNOWING THAT IF IT'S EVEN A 1% NET DIFFERENCE, WE WANT TO HOLD IT THERE. NOW, I DON'T WANT TO TAKE $1 AWAY FROM A PROJECT THAT YOU CAN GET TO, TO THE POINT TO WHERE WE'LL GO BOND IT, YOU KNOW, THIS COUNCIL WILL. AND SO YOU'LL HAVE THE RESOURCES YOU NEED TO MAINTAIN THAT LEVEL OF CUSTOMER SERVICE AND REPAIRS AND CONTRACT AND ENGAGEMENT, YOU NAME IT. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I DON'T WANT TO KNEE JERK IT AND JUST BLANKET THIS PERCENTAGE. LET IT RUN FOR A YEAR AND NOT HAVE A GOOD LOOK BACK. SO THAT'S, EVERYTHING I'M TRYING TO CAPTURE RIGHT THERE. THERE'S PROS AND CONS TO IT. I'M NOT TRYING TO DEFEND IT. I'M JUST PUTTING IT OUT THERE AS A CONSIDERATION FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS. COUNCILMAN PRESCOTT, YOU HAVE ANYTHING? I DO. I WOULD CHALLENGE THIS COUNCIL. I THINK THAT THE CONSERVATION CREDIT IS VERY STRONG. I THINK THAT IS REWARDING THOSE THAT DON'T USE THE WATER. I THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE THINKING, I MEAN, WE JUST HEARD FROM DONNY. THANK YOU FOR. I MEAN, WE HAVE A BIG SPEND THAT WE NEED TO GET. IF WE LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF WATER WE HAVE IN THE ROBERTS COUNTY WELL FIELD ON AN ACRE FEET BASIS, THE ANDREW WE SPOKE SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, AND I GUESS THE VALUE OF THE CITY IS ABOUT 21 BILLION, RIGHT. SOMEWHERE IN THERE. YES SIR. THE ENTERPRISE VALUE OF THE CITY IS ABOUT 21 BILLION. IF YOU TAKE THE AMOUNT OF WATER THAT WE HAVE IN ROBERTS COUNTY ACRE FEET, IT'S NOT AN ABSOLUTE NUMBER. BUT IF YOU RUN THAT CALCULATION OF ACRE FEET AT $0.40 PER THOUSAND GALLONS, WE HAVE ABOUT $60 BILLION WORTH OF WATER AT TODAY'S RATE. WE KNOW THAT WATER IS GOING UP 8 TO 12% PER YEAR. SO IF THE GOING RATE IS $5 PER ACRE FOOT, WHY WOULD WE SETTLE AS A CITY THAT IS GROWING WITH 150 YEARS OF WATER, WHY WOULD WE NOT GO ON THE HUNT FOR MORE WATER AND USE THESE FUNDS TO SET UP OUR GRANDKIDS GRANDKIDS, THE ABILITY TO BE HERE? SO WE ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO BACK UP ON WATER BECAUSE IF WE DON'T BUY IT, DALLAS WILL BUY IT. LUBBOCK WILL BUY IT. EVERY OTHER COMMUNITY IS GOING TO BUY THAT WATER. AND IT IS VERY FEARFUL FOR ME TO SIT HERE AND THINK THAT WE WOULD BE IN A SITUATION LIKE MIDLAND, WHO ONLY HAS 15 YEARS WORTH OF WATER. I, FOR ONE, EXPECT TO BE ALIVE IN 15 YEARS. I, FOR ONE, EXPECT MY HOME TO HAVE VALUE IN 15 YEARS. IF WE DON'T HAVE ANY WATER, WE WILL NOT HAVE A CITY. WE WILL NOT HAVE INDUSTRY. SO IF WE'RE GOING TO PULL BACK AND NOT CHARGE THE AMOUNTS AND ALLOW US TO STILL BE ON THE HUNT FOR ADDITIONAL WATER RESOURCES AND PROVIDE THAT DOWN THE ROAD, WE MUST THINK ABOUT THAT AND GO BACK TO THE 60 BILLION ASSET BASE IF WE ADD THAT 60. RIGHT, FREEMAN, IF WE ADD THAT ON TO THE 21, THAT GIVES US AN $80 BILLION DOLLAR ASSET. WHAT DOES THAT 60 BILLION LOOK LIKE AT 8 TO 10% PER YEAR INCREASE? THOSE ARE REAL DOLLARS THAT ARE GOING TO MOVE THE CITY ON WITH A TRUE EQUITY POSITION. I JUST FEEL WITHOUT LOOKING AT ALL OF THESE PIECES, I GET THAT IT IS HURTING PEOPLE, DIESEL PRICES. BUT LIKE COUNCILMAN REID SAID, ABOUT THREE DAYS WITHOUT WATER AND YOU'RE DONE. SO WE'RE NOT WE CAN'T WE CAN'T MOVE ON THIS ONE. I MEAN, WE'VE GOT TO DRIVE AND PUSH FORWARD FOR OUR GRANDKIDS, GRANDKIDS. AND WE SET THE STAGE FOR THAT NOW. I WOULD TO BACK TO THE FIRST POINT, AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE PRESENTATION ON OCTOBER 22ND, BECAUSE I THINK BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT ANY OF THIS, THE ACCURACY OF THE WATER BILLS, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF CITIZENS THAT ARE STILL ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER THEIR WATER BILL IS ACCURATE. THEY'RE SEEING ANOMALIES OUT OF THAT. SO BEFORE WE GO BACK AND TRY AND DETERMINE HOW MUCH MONEY WE CAN GET OUT OF THAT. I'M HOPING THAT WE GET SOME ANSWERS AS TO WHY PEOPLE ARE SEEING THESE ABNORMALITIES IN THEIR WATER BILLS, AND TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. BUT I GUESS, DONNY, THE INCREASE ANYTIME WE'RE CHARGING AN INCREASE IN THIS, [00:30:06] IT'S JUST PAYING FOR MAINTENANCE AND IMPROVEMENT. CORRECT. THAT'S ONE AREA THAT WE'RE PAYING FOR. CORRECT. AND THEN BUT NOW TO LEVEL ON TOP OF THAT, THIS IS HOW WE'RE GOING TO PAY FOR OUR WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT. CORRECT. THIS PART PARTLY. YEAH. AND WILL THE MAJORITY BE PAID OUT OF THIS A MINORITY OR I MEAN, HOW MUCH WILL WE BE DEPENDING ON THIS TO PAY FOR IT AS OPPOSED TO OTHER OUTLETS THAT WE HAVE? I WOULD SAY THAT IT WOULD PROBABLY BE THE MINORITY. OKAY. YEAH. AND THEN ALSO FOR CRMWA TO PAY FOR THE ADDITIONAL PIPELINE THAT'S GOING TO BE BUILT THERE, THAT COMES OUT OF THIS AS WELL. WELL, YEAH, THAT COMES OUT OF THE 8% OPERATING INCREASE. THEY'RE TAKING ABOUT 5 MILLION THIS YEAR JUST FOR CRMWA. SO SO IN ONE WAY WE'VE ALREADY COMMITTED TO THE CRMWA IS MONEY. AND WE FEEL THAT THAT'S WHAT'S NEEDED TO BE DONE. IS ANY OF THIS GOING TO THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT. RIGHT NOW, IT'S GOING TO ONE TIME PROJECTS TO HELP SUPPORT OUR EXISTING PLANTS. AND THEN WHEN THE TIME COMES TO ISSUE DEBT, WE CAN TAKE THIS RATE AND ISSUE DEBT WITH IT. SO BASICALLY, DOING ONE TIME PROJECTS EACH YEAR UNTIL THE TIME COMES TO ISSUE THE DEBT. AND I GUESS THAT THOUGHT PROCESS HAS BEEN, I MEAN, THERE'S GOING TO BE, THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE MULTIPLE RATE INCREASES OVER THE COURSE OF TIME TO BE ABLE TO FUND THE WHOLE PROJECT, THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT. AND I GUESS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CONTINUE TO FUND CRMWA. YES, AS WELL. SO BUT BUT I DO AGREE, I THINK BEFORE WE GO INTO WHERE THAT LEAVING THIS RATE FOR NOW AND WHETHER WE CAN DO IT, BUT I DO THINK WE NEED A LOT MORE DATA AND INFORMATION, BECAUSE THIS IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE NOT JUST THIS YEAR, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE MULTIPLE YEARS OUT. IT LOOKS LIKE, TO BE ABLE TO PAY FOR THE COMMITMENTS THAT WE MADE TO CRMWA AND TO ALSO BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, PAY FOR THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT. BUT I DO THINK DETERMINING WHERE WHERE WE START ON THE BASELINE IS, AND WE DON'T, I AGREE, WE DON'T I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO DETERMINE WHERE THAT CAN BE. AND THEN ULTIMATELY WHO NEEDS TO PAY? ARE THERE CERTAIN PEOPLE THAT NEED TO PAY FOR MORE THAN OTHERS, OR ARE THERE CERTAIN PEOPLE THAT NEED TO PAY MORE FOR OTHERS IN WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT? I MEAN, THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GETTING AND THE TIERS HAS BASICALLY DONE THAT. BUT I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, DO WE WANT TO DO MORE? BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S GOING TO BE A FIXED COST. SOMEBODY'S GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. IF SOMEBODY IS GETTING RELIEF, THAT'S GREAT, BUT THEN SOMEONE ELSE WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE FOR IT TO BE ABLE TO COVER THE COST OF CRMWA AND THE WASTEWATER. GREAT DISCUSSION. APPRECIATE YOU GUYS ENGAGING AND GLAD TO PUT THAT OUT THERE. YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY WHO'S LISTENING OR OR MAY LOOK BACK AT THIS I MEAN, YOU'RE HEARING CONSIDERATIONS FOR WATER CONSERVATION WATER PURCHASE, ADDITIONAL WATER RIGHTS FUTURE PROTECTION OF WATER. COUNCILMAN PRESCOTT HAS, I DON'T KNOW OF ANYBODY WHO'S EVER LOOKED AT IT THE WAY HE'S LOOKED AT IT. IT'S A VERY UNIQUE BUSINESS WAY TO LOOK AT THE VALUATION OF A INCORPORATED CITY LIMITS. AND IT REALLY PANS OUT PRETTY TRUE IN HOW HEALTHY OR WEALTHY THE CITY IS BASED ON ITS WATER RIGHTS. AND I WISH I HAD A 200 YEARS, 150 YEARS. I WISH I KNEW. I'D HATE TO SAY WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, BUT YOU KNOW, THE, ORIGINAL YEARS OF WATER RIGHTS THAT WE CURRENTLY HAD WAS OVER 200. MAYBE IT'S REALLY CLOSER TO 150. THERE'S AN EXPERT OUT THERE SOMEWHERE WITH A PHD IN IT THAT COULD TELL US, BUT WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT ANYTHING IN THE NEAR FUTURE, BUT WE ARE LOOKING LONG TERM, I THINK, IN ADDITIONAL WATER RIGHTS PURCHASES. AND SO HOW WE WALK INTO THIS IS A PHILOSOPHY DO WE SHARE THE COST NOW? AND WE START PAYING FOR THINGS THAT FUTURE GENERATIONS ARE GOING TO NEED AND ENJOY. DO WE WAIT AND LET THE USER PAY YOU KNOW THE MAJORITY OF THAT WHEN IT'S NEEDED. OR IS THERE SOME SORT OF A BALANCE IN HOW WE WALK THIS IN? AND SO I'D LOVE TO ARTICULATE THIS UP AS WE GO RATHER THAN JUST GETTING AN AVERAGE THAT THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR. BUT I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH. AND I THINK JUST BECAUSE IT'S A NOT YET, WE SHOULD BE SAFE, CONSERVATIVE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE BUDGET, MAKING SURE OUR STAFF AND HARD WORKING INDIVIDUALS HERE THAT WE SUPPORT YOU AND WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE FUNDED APPROPRIATELY. WE ALSO, AT THE SAME TIME EXPECT OUR RATEPAYERS AND CUSTOMERS TO KNOW WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BILLING ISSUES, SHORT OF TEARING OUT 70,000 METERS AND PUTTING THEM ALL BACK TO THE OLD METERING SYSTEM. WE ARE HOPEFUL THAT WE WILL GET SOME GOOD SOLID ANSWERS AND WE'LL BE OUT OF THE, THE WOODS SOON ON THIS. [00:35:01] I WON'T KEEP US HERE ANY LONGER. I THINK WE'VE DISCUSSED IT PRETTY WELL. COUNCIL, IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING, JUMP IN. OTHERWISE, I'M GOING TO OPEN A PUBLIC HEARING. ALL RIGHT. AT THIS TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO OPEN A PUBLIC HEARING ON ITEM 2.1. DO I HAVE ANYONE HERE WHO'D LIKE TO SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST THIS ITEM? MR. FISHER, WILL YOU KICK US OFF? MAN. AND IN YOUR DEFENSE, LES, MAN, WHERE WAS ALL THIS CONCERN ABOUT A YEAR AGO? WASN'T THAT A YEAR AGO WITH FERMI? WAS THAT ABOUT A YEAR? EVERYBODY CAME UP HERE AND SAID EVERYTHING THAT YOU GUYS ARE SAYING LIKE THAT, IT'S DRYING UP. CLAYTON, NEW MEXICO DRYING UP. THAT'S WHAT I SAID. AND NOW WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT IT. WHERE WAS THAT? WHERE WAS THAT TALK THEN? AND YOU GUYS YOU ALREADY FOUND THINK ABOUT THIS IS ABOUT BUDGET. THINK ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER THE LAST YEAR. YOU GUYS ARE STILL OVER HERE LIKE TAKING THIS MAN'S WORD. I MEAN, YOU FOUND 40 SOMETHING MILLION IN CIPS AFTER YOU INCREASED THE BUDGET AND THEN MONTHS INTO THE BUDGET, YOU PASSED A $30 MILLION CERTIFICATE OF OBLIGATION AFTER THAT. AND SO ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE ANYTHING THAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW? ANYTHING THAT THEY SAY, LIKE, HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE THEM? IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU CATCH A KID LYING. NO, THIS TIME, THIS TIME I'M TELLING THE TRUTH. I MEAN, NOBODY'S EVEN QUESTIONING WHAT THEY'RE BRINGING TO YOU. AND THEN HE'S OVER HERE TALKING ABOUT $1 BILLION. AND HE SAID IT WAS ON THE LOWER SIDE OF WHAT THIS THE INCREASES ARE GOING TO COVER. I DID THE RESEARCH WHILE WE WERE SITTING HERE. $1 BILLION PLANT IS GOING TO RAISE THAT MINIMUM BILL, $60 TO $85 BUCKS. THAT'S A LOT OF DANG MONEY. WE'RE TAXING PEOPLE OUT OF THE CITY LIMITS HERE I WAS AT THE AISD RIGHT SIZE COMMITTEE THING. THEY INVITED ME TO. I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY HAD THE NERVE TO INVITE ME, BECAUSE I ENDED UP WITH A MIC AT ONE POINT, AND THEY TALKED ABOUT HOW THERE'S NOT ENOUGH HOME BILLS TO FILL THE SEATS AT AISD THINK ABOUT THAT AT 85 BUCKS TO OUR CURRENT BILL OF 60 SOME. SO IT'S 140. YOU'VE ALREADY DONE THE MATH. THAT'S A THOUSAND A YEAR, 30 YEAR NOTE, $30,000 BUCKS. THEN YOU START THINKING, MAN, I CAN, I CAN PUT IN A SEPTIC. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT RUNS. MAYBE TEN, $15,000. YOU'RE GOING TO POCKET 10 OR $15,000, MAYBE OVER 30 YEARS AND EVEN LONGER. WHO KNOWS WHAT THE BILL IS GOING TO BE IN 20 YEARS. WE'RE TAXING PEOPLE OUT OF OUR CITY LIMITS. I THINK PEOPLE LOOK AT BETWEEN HERE AND CANYON, LOOK AT ALL THE HOUSES WE'RE. PEOPLE ARE DOING THE MATH AND IT'S CHEAPER TO LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE. BUT IF YOU ADD ANOTHER 85 BUCKS TO THAT A MONTH, IT'S THINGS ARE GOING TO BE BAD AND YOU'RE GOING TO GET WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT WORSE. WE'RE ALREADY WE'RE TRANSFERRING MONEY OUT OF THE ENTERPRISE FUND. YOU GUYS HAVE DONE IT. SO WE'RE MOVING MONEY OUT OF FEE BASED REVENUE INTO THE BUDGET. WE'RE SAVING THE BUDGET. THINK ABOUT IT. OUR BUDGET DOUBLED BUT WE DIDN'T GO UP ON TAXES DOUBLED. OUR SO WHERE'S THAT MONEY COME FROM? WE'RE TRANSFERRING WE'RE RUNNING THIS CITY ON THESE UTILITY BILLS. AND I THINK WE'RE AT A CRITICAL POINT WHERE IT'S TOO MUCH FOR THE AVERAGE PEOPLE. LET ME ENGAGE WITH YOU HERE FOR JUST A SECOND. YES. SO A COUPLE THINGS. SO THIS COUNCIL IN VOTING FOR A WATER CONTRACT FOR PROJECT MATADOR WON THAT PROJECT IS POWER GENERATION. IT WAS PRESENTED TO THIS COUNCIL AS A POWER GENERATION PLANT. IT CONSIDERS ALL SORTS OF AI DATA CENTERS. I'M NOT TRYING TO GET AROUND THAT AND WOULDN'T EXPECT ANYBODY TO PURCHASE OR BUY THAT. BUT WE PRESENTED A RESTRICTIVE WATER CONTRACT BY HAVING THEM PUT IN TWO WELLS TO INCREASE PRODUCTION. HAVE THEM PAY FOR THAT, THEN GIFT IT TO THE CITY, PAY FOR THEIR OWN MAIN LINE EXTENSION. THEN WE DOUBLED THEIR RATE SO THAT FUTURE COUNCILS COULD USE THAT RATE TO GO OUT AND BUY MORE WATER RIGHTS. WE THOUGHT WE WERE MAKING A PRETTY GOOD BUSINESS DECISION, AND I UNDERSTAND THE POLITICS OF IT GRABBED SOMEBODY'S EAR AND THEY RAN ON IT. AND SO LIKE, WE HAVE PEOPLE ACROSS, NOT EVEN JUST TEXAS, BUT THE NATION THAT WRITE US ABOUT SELLING WATER RIGHTS. LIKE WE'VE NEVER SOLD A WATER RIGHT. NOBODY'S EVER TALKED ABOUT ANY OF THAT. BUT THEN JUST TO POINT TO THAT, LIKE I DO FEEL LIKE WATER CONSERVATION WAS PART OF THAT DISCUSSION. NOW, YOU GUYS DIDN'T GET TO HEAR THAT BECAUSE YOU WERE DROWNED OUT BY THE LOUD VOICES THAT WANTED TO BE FIRST WITH YOU KNOW, THEIR COMPLAINT AND WITH THEIR CONCERN. AND IT WAS FEAR BASED. [00:40:04] AND SO, YOU KNOW, DID WE ALL OF A SUDDEN BECOME CONCERNED OF WATER USAGE? I DON'T THINK SO. I MEAN, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A TIER BASED SYSTEM. AND THE MORE YOU USE, THE MORE IT COSTS YOU, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S NOT ON US. LIKE THAT'S BECAUSE PREVIOUS COUNCILS HAVE BEEN GOOD STEWARDS. SO THAT TO SAY I'M A CONTRACTOR, SO I CAN SPEAK PRETTY CLEARLY TO MY CONCERN FOR MY NEIGHBORS SOUTH OF TOWN. I THINK WE NEED TO PLAN ON BEING ABLE TO DELIVER WATER AT SOME POINT IN TIME. THOSE ARE THE WELLS THAT WE HAVE THE MOST CONCERN FOR. AND SO IF YOU'RE BUILDING YOUR BUSINESS AND YOUR HOUSE SOUTH OF TOWN YOU POTENTIALLY ARE PUTTING A $20,000 WELL IN, WE COULD HAVE FIVE YEARS OR TEN YEARS FROM NOW, THAT $85 INCREASE WOULD GO TO THAT WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT TOTAL. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT YOUR AI NUMBERS ARE CORRECT, BUT LET'S JUST ASSUME THEY ARE. YOU'RE SAYING LIKE, WELL, WE ARE TAXING PEOPLE OUT OF AMARILLO AND IT'S JUST A LITTLE FRIENDLY PUSHBACK IN THAT'S LIKE SAYING MYSELF AS A BUILDER, I'M PRICING PEOPLE OUT OF BUILDING A HOME. THE PRICE OF A TWO BY FOUR IS WHAT'S PRICING PEOPLE OUT OF BUILDING A HOME. THE PRICE OF A STICK OF REBAR, CONCRETE, THE DIESEL THAT GOES IN THE TRUCK, THE LABOR FOR THE ELECTRICIAN WHO I CAN'T EVEN GET TO CALL ME BACK SOMETIMES BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY BUSY GROWING ALL OF THE OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE OUTSIDE. SO THERE'S SO MANY COMPONENTS. SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE MAINTAIN THE NEUTRALITY HERE OF WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. WE'RE WORKING TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE TAKE THIS AND MEET THIS END TO THAT AND CONNECT THEM. WE'RE NOT PRICING ANYBODY OUT OF AISD. I THINK ISD IS PRETTY LANDLOCKED, YOU KNOW, AND THEY DO NEED HOUSES, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT THEY NEED? THEY NEED 10,000 HOMES. YOU KNOW WELL WE COULD GO BUILD ALL DAY, EVERY DAY AND PUT UP 500. RIGHT. SO SOME OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE LATE TO THE PARTY NEEDED TO BE HAPPENING WITH PREVIOUS LEADERSHIP. AND THEY WEREN'T. SO THESE ARE CONDITIONS THAT WE'RE ALL FACING. I LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, MY DISTINGUISHED CHIEF IN THE BACK, YOU KNOW, WE USE THE EXAMPLE OF A TWO PLUS MILLION DOLLAR LADDER TRUCK. I MEAN, THAT'S A CONDITION THAT WE FACE. AND WE DIDN'T FACE THAT SEVERAL YEARS AGO. SO WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MANAGE GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICES, BUSINESS PRINCIPLES. AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LEVERAGE SOME OF THESE BILLABLES AND REVENUES WITH GOOD DEBT. AND I THINK WE CAN DO THAT. AND I KNOW YOUR PUSHBACK, I APPRECIATE BECAUSE YOU'RE CONSERVATIVE AND ALL YOU'RE SAYING IS, LOOK, IF WE GOT THE CASH PAY, PAY CASH FOR IT, YOU KNOW, AND SOME OF THE SOLUTIONS AREN'T CASH, BUT THEN SOME OF THEM ARE. AND SO I JUST ENGAGE WITH YOU HERE BRIEFLY ON THAT BECAUSE IT'S A PUBLIC HEARING AND I'D LOVE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS. AND THERE'S SO MUCH COMPREHENSIVE ALL THE WAY AROUND. THERE'S SO MANY PIECES TO THIS PUZZLE. I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR TO LAY IT ON A COUNCIL RATE, RIGHT? WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE COST OF LIVING. SO DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING COUNCILMAN? YEAH, I JUST YOU BRING UP SUCH A GOOD POINT, MIKE, THAT THERE IS THERE IS CONCERN BETWEEN AMARILLO AND CANYON, YOU KNOW, JUST IN THAT JUST TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF GROWTH. AND WE THINK ABOUT THE WELLS THAT ARE GOING IN AND WHAT IS THE IMPACT WHEN THEY'RE ON ONE FIVE ACRE CENTERS AND THE WELLS ARE GOING IN AT 20 OR 30 GRAND A POP, YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T OPERATE WITHOUT A WELL, RIGHT. YOU CAN'T DO THAT. SO WHAT IS THE REALITY IN I MEAN, LENDING ON THAT ON THOSE PROPERTIES? DO THEY HAVE WATER FOR 20 YEARS? ARE THEY GOING TO GO INTO THE SANTA ROSA. YOU KNOW, IS THAT WATER GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, PALATABLE? IS IT GOING TO HAVE THE WATER QUALITY THAT THEY NEED? I THINK THOSE INDIVIDUALS REALLY NEED TO BE THINKING OR AMARILLO OR CANYON NEED TO BE THINKING, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? AND DO WE HAVE ENOUGH WATER TO SUPPLY THOSE COMMUNITIES? ARE THEY CANYON COMMUNITIES OR ARE THEY AMARILLO COMMUNITIES? AND WHAT IS THAT CAPITAL COST GOING TO BE TO RUN WATER LINES AND SEWER LINES INTO THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE RELYING ON SEPTIC AND WELL WATER? WHEN THAT WELL WATER RUNS OUT? I THINK THAT I THINK THAT THERE'S A REAL ECONOMIC IMPACT FOR THOSE, THOSE FAMILIES. BECAUSE WHAT IS I MEAN, IF THEY'RE PAYING TWO, 220 A FOOT RIGHT NOW FOR THOSE HOMES BASED ON THAT, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE ENOUGH WATER. WHAT IF THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH WATER? I MEAN, THERE'S SOME REAL BANKRUPTCY ISSUES, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE COMING. AND I WANT YOU TO KNOW, AND I THINK YOU DO KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT WATER. I MEAN AND I VOTED, I VOTED FOR THE FERMI DEAL BECAUSE IT WAS A TWO AND A HALF TIMES OR TWO TIMES FOR THE 2.5 MILLION GALLONS PER DAY. AND AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THE 1.1 TRILLION GALLONS THAT THE TOP 26 COUNTIES USED 97% OF THAT IS AG. SO IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A 0.003 VALUE IN THE TOP 26 COUNTIES. AND AGAIN, FERMI HAS NOT USED HOW MUCH WATER HAD FERMI USED. I MISSED THAT MEETING WHEN IT WAS VERY LITTLE. IN THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS. YEAH, LESS THAN A MILLION GALLONS THUS FAR. [00:45:02] NO ONE SAID A WORD ABOUT PRODUCER OWNED BEEF GETTING 3 MILLION AT A ONE TIME RATE. NO ONE HAS EVER SAID A WORD ABOUT THAT. SO IF WE'RE TRULY CONCERNED ABOUT THE BIG PICTURE OF WATER, I MEAN, BEING HONEST, YOU KNOW, TALKING ABOUT IT, THEN WE REALLY HAVE TO START REALLY HAVING THE BIG CONVERSATION. 1.1 TRILLION GALLONS IN THE TOP 26 COUNTIES. CROWELL IS NOT RUNNING OUT OF WATER BECAUSE OF CHILDRESS. THEY HAVEN'T COME ONLINE YET. CROWELL IS RUNNING OUT OF WATER. CHILDRESS IS RUNNING OUT OF WATER. CLARENDON, QUANAH BECAUSE IT DOESN'T RAIN HERE ANYMORE. THAT'S NOT BECAUSE OF DATA CENTERS AND THE REASON THE AQUIFERS ARE DROPPING FIVE, SIX, SEVEN FEET IN CERTAIN AREAS IS WE'RE OVERPRODUCING FOR AGRICULTURE. AND THAT'S JUST I MEAN, I'M NOT AGAINST AG, I'M NOT AGAINST ANYBODY. BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A FINITE RESOURCE. AND WE'RE PULLING WAY MORE THAN IT RECHARGES. WHAT IS THE END. IT'S JUST A CONVERSATION, BUT EXCELLENT POINT BETWEEN AMARILLO AND CANYON. YEAH. APPRECIATE THE ENGAGEMENT. CAN I RESPOND? YES, SIR. YOU GUYS. WELL, I MEAN, WE'RE GOING TO THE OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM, RIGHT? BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PRODUCING OUR OWN BEEF, THAT'S THAT'S WHO WE ARE. THAT'S WHAT WE DO. THAT'S WE, THAT'S OUR BIGGEST EXPORT THAT'S ALREADY HERE, MEANING THAT INDUSTRY. BUT WE BRING IN A WHOLE NEW INDUSTRY, AI WHERE WE COULD HAVE JUST SAID, HEY, YOU NEED TO GO BY THE COAST, GO DOWN TO THE COAST, YOU GOT PLENTY OF WATER DOWN THERE ON THE OCEAN. YOU CAN FIGURE IT OUT DOWN THERE. THAT DATA CAN TRANSFER UP HERE. WE CAN'T TRANSFER CATTLE AS EASY AS DATA. AND COLE WHAT YOU BROUGHT UP EARLIER, YOU TALKED ABOUT LIKE, I GET IT, THERE'S A BIG PICTURE HERE. THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER THINGS. I ONLY HAVE THREE MINUTES AND THEY'RE BEEPING OVER HERE. I MEAN, WHEN I WAS TALKING TO SOME, I JUST WENT TO THE MAIN THING. I DO LIKE THE TIER BASED. I THINK WE SHOULD USE THE TIER WHERE THE AVERAGE PERSON USES 35 TO 70 GALLONS A DAY. SO FIGURE OUT WHAT OUR AVERAGE HOME HAS AND THEN SAY WHOEVER SITS AT 35, THAT'S SUPER CHEAP AT 35 FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT AVERAGE IS AND THEN SAY, IF YOU SIT THERE, IT'S SUPER CHEAP. AND THEN IF YOU GO ABOVE IT, IT STARTS BUMPING. AND INSTEAD OF DO THE REVERSE. BECAUSE I THINK IN NORMAL BUSINESS, WE GIVE CHEAPER BY THE MORE YOU BUY, THE MORE CHEAPER IT GETS. IT SHOULD BE THE REVERSE ON WATER. BUT COLE, BACK TO YOUR COMMENT ABOUT LIKE BUILDING HOMES AND ALL THAT STUFF. I KNOW, I KNOW A BUILDER THAT SAID HE JUST GAVE UP ON BUILDING IN THE CITY LIMITS OF AMARILLO. HE JUST SAID, IT'S TOO HARD, IT'S TOO DIFFICULT. AND LET ME JUST GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE AND I'LL BE DONE HERE. I WAS TALKING TO AISD AND I TOLD HIM THE SAME STORY. IT'S A GUY THAT'S FROM THE NORTH SIDE OF THE COMMUNITY. HE'S A COMMUNITY LEADER. AND HE TOLD ME A STORY ABOUT WHEN HE BOUGHT A HOME. AND JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME BACKGROUND, THEY BROUGHT UP A SLIDE ABOUT PALO DURO HAD THE MOST EMPTY SEATS. AND AT THE SCHOOL THERE. AND SO NOW KEEP IN MIND, THIS IS A NORTH SIDE COMMUNITY LEADER THAT BOUGHT A HOME. HE'S GOING TO FLIP IT OR SELL IT OR RENT IT. IT MIGHT BE A CHANCE OF A FAMILY, A YOUNG FAMILY THAT MIGHT HAVE KIDS THAT MIGHT SIT IN THOSE SEATS. HE SAID THAT OUR MARSHALS OFFICE, LIKE NOT THE FIRE MARSHAL, THE CITY MARSHAL'S OFFICE DROVE BY. NEXT THING YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY GETS OUT OF THEIR CAR AND WALKS UP TO HIM AND SAYS, HEY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? AND HE SAID, I'M CLEANING UP, CLEANING UP MY YARD. AND THEY SAID, DO YOU HAVE A PERMIT FOR THAT? AND HE SAID, I NEED A PERMIT TO CLEAN UP MY YARD. SO THINK ABOUT THAT. HOW HARD, IF IT'S THAT HARD TO CLEAN UP YOUR YARD. YOU'RE GETTING BADGERED BY THE MARSHAL'S OFFICE AND I CAN BACK THIS UP. THE PERSON'S WILLING TO SIGN A SWORN AFFIDAVIT IF I ASKED HIM IF HE WOULD, BUT MIGHT NOT BE JUST YET, BUT HE WOULD BE. AND IF IT'S THAT HARD TO CLEAN UP YOUR YARD AND TRY TO GET MAYBE SOMEBODY LIVING IN THAT HOUSE, HOW HARD IS IT TO BUILD. SO I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT. WELL, I WANT TO SAY THIS AND WE'LL LET YOU SIT DOWN, MAN. YOUR VOICE IS IMPORTANT. WE DON'T ALWAYS APPRECIATE IT. AND I'M SPEAKING CANDIDLY BECAUSE IT COMES WITH CRITICISM THAT'S PERSONAL. BUT IT DOESN'T NEGATE THE FACT THAT, LIKE, YOU HAVE A VOICE AND IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU'RE SPEAKING FACTUALLY AND YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WE DO DISLIKE IT WHEN YOU'RE RIGHT. AND THERE ARE TIMES WHERE I LOOK AT YOUR FACTS AND I'M LIKE, WELL, HE'S RIGHT, YOU KNOW, AND SO WHAT CAN I TAKE FROM THAT? SO THIS IS GREAT INTERACTION. AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT SETS THE EXAMPLE OF LIKE, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, AND THEN THERE IS A SPECTRUM AND WE'RE GOING ALL THE WAY BACK AND FORTH. AND SOMEWHERE HERE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT IS, IS WHAT WE GET TO AFFECT, WHICH IS VERY, VERY LITTLE. AND SO IF YOU FEEL THE PUSHBACK FROM US, IT'S JUST BECAUSE WE WISH WE COULD DO MORE. I HATE THAT IT'S A LETDOWN TO YOU GUYS SOMETIMES THAT ARE ON THE CRITICAL SIDE OF THE COMMENT. [00:50:01] BUT, YOU KNOW, NOTHING BUT APPLAUSE DOESN'T GET US ANYWHERE. AND SO I DON'T NEED YOU TO BOUNCE ME ON YOUR KNEE AND FEED ME SKITTLES. YOU KNOW, FOR ME TO FEEL GOOD ABOUT MYSELF, I NEED TO SEE THINGS THAT FUNCTION AND GET FIXED AND GET BETTER. AND SO SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, CODES AND STANDARDS GET IN THE WAY OF GOOD OLD FASHIONED COMMON SENSE, RIGHT? AND SO WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE ABLE TO FUNCTION IN TODAY'S SOCIETY WHERE WE ALLOW OUR PERSONNEL OUT THERE TO EXERCISE SOME COMMON SENSE. I UNDERSTAND THE CODE AND THE STANDARD MAY SAY YOU GOT TO PULL A PERMIT FOR THAT. WHATEVER THE SITUATION IS, I KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO BUILD IN THE CITY. AND I WISHED I HAVE DONE MORE TO AFFECT IT. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT DONE YET. SO GOOD, GOOD CONVERSATION. I JUST HOPE YOU HEAR THE RESPECT AND NOT THE PUSHBACK BECAUSE IT IS IT'S MUTUAL RESPECT AND YOU'RE NOT WRONG. AND COUNCILMAN PRESCOTT'S NOT WRONG. BUT THERE IS A PLACE IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL THIS WHERE MAYBE WE ACHIEVE A CONSERVATION CREDIT, MAYBE WE ACHIEVE AN INCREASE ON THE BILL AND WE ACHIEVE SOME GOOD DEBT THAT GETS OUT THERE AND TAKES ON THE BILLION DOLLAR PROJECT OR THE BILLION DOLLAR WATER RIGHTS OPPORTUNITY THAT COULD PRESENT ITSELF. SO I LOVE IT AND I THANK YOU FOR IT. THANKS FOR THE MEME, THE SKITTLES MEME IDEA. I MEAN, I CAN ONLY IMAGINE HOW A LITTLE POTHOLE COLE AND THAT CARICATURE THAT YOU GOT, YOU KNOW, HE'S ALL OVER TOWN ALREADY. SO. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. YEAH, YEAH. WELL, I ONLY DO THAT TO ENTERTAIN MY CHIEF WHO'S SITTING IN THE BACK. I THINK HE APPRECIATED THAT ONE. SO ALRIGHT, SO WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING THAT'S STILL OPEN. IT'S AN ENTERTAINING ONE AND IT'S A, PRODUCTIVE ONE. SIR, IF YOU'D LIKE TO COME FORWARD, MR. BENSON, YOU'RE UP. REAL SHORT. FIRST COMMENT IS ON FERMI. REALISTICALLY, GUYS, FERMI SHOULDN'T EVEN BE IN THE EQUATION BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT EVEN OPEN. I MEAN, THEY'RE, OUT THERE DOING SOME WORK, BUT THEY'RE NOT USING THE WATER THEY'RE GOING TO BE USING WHENEVER THEY DO GET OPEN, IF THEY DO GET OPEN. BUT BACK TO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THIS IS FOR WHOEVER RUNS NEXT TIME NEXT YEAR. MAYBE YOU OUGHT TO LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE DEPARTMENTS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE LOOK AT SOME OF THESE DEPARTMENTS WHERE WE CAN CUT STUFF. I THINK A LOT OF THE BIDS THAT GO OUT WITH THIS CITY ARE WAY, WAY OVER BID. I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE BIDS. WE'RE GETTING OVERTAXED ON THINGS THAT WE REALLY DON'T NEED. I MEAN, I'M GOING TO MAKE ONE MORE COMMENT ON THE HOMELESS. YOU KNOW, WE'RE PUTTING A LOT OF MONEY IN THAT THING A LOT. AND YOU GUYS KEEP ASKING EVERY YEAR, EVERY YEAR YOU WANT MORE. WHAT ARE WE GETTING OUT OF IT? IT'S NOT WORKING. YOU KNOW, BUT AGAIN, GOOD LUCK TO YOU GUYS ON TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT. I DON'T WANT TO BEAT UP ON YOU TOO MUCH. I JUST I THINK NEXT YEAR, WHOEVER'S RUNNING, YOU REALLY NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT WE CAN CUT AND REALLY HOW THESE BIDS ARE GOING OUT BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING OVERTAXED ON THESE BIDS. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. UNDERSTOOD, SIR. APPRECIATE YOU. DO WE HAVE ANYONE ELSE HERE WHO'D LIKE TO OFFER A COMMENT HERE DURING THIS PUBLIC HEARING? OKAY. I'M GOING TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING ON ITEM 2.1. AND AT THIS TIME, I'M GOING TO REMIND YOU GUYS YOU HAVE LEGAL LANGUAGE TO FORMALLY ADOPT THIS AND WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION FROM COUNCIL. LET ME PAUSE REAL QUICK. YES, SIR. YES, WE HAVE BACK TO BACK PUBLIC HEARINGS, BUT YOU COULD GO AHEAD AND TAKE ACTION ON THE FIRST ORDINANCE FOR SECOND READING, IF YOU'D LIKE. YEAH, I WAS JUST GOING TO OPEN A PUBLIC HEARING ON THE NEXT ONE. SEPARATE JUST THAT WAY IN CASE ANYBODY SHOWS UP LATE OR WHATEVER. WE DON'T WORRY ABOUT SKIPPING ANYTHING. THANK YOU, THOUGH, FOR THE CAUTION. COUNCIL, I BELIEVE IT'S TO YOU. ITEM. THIS RIGHT HERE ITEM. OH, NO, I APOLOGIZE. WE DON'T HAVE, DO WE HAVE LANGUAGE THAT WE NEED TO READ ON THIS? I THOUGHT WE DID. IF YOU WANT TO ADOPT THE BUDGET ORDINANCE, THAT'S ITEM 2.3. AND THAT'S THE FIRST SET OF LANGUAGE ON YOUR MOTION SHEET. I APOLOGIZE. SO I MISREAD THE AGENDA. SO THAT'S WHAT, YOU'RE CORRECT. TAX RATE PUBLIC HEARING. YEAH. SO YOU'VE LISTED IT JUST AS THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THE TAX RATE WITH NO ACTION. YES. ACTION ITEM COMES UP LATER. PERFECT. SO YOU GUYS LISTED THE PUBLIC HEARING SEPARATE. OKAY. SO THEN HERE'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO. [2.3. Consideration of Ordinance No. 8270. This item is the second and final reading of an ordinance adopting the City of Amarillo budget for the 2026/2027 fiscal year. This budget allows for the City to continue providing effective public services, programs and assistance to Amarillo residents in the upcoming year.] COUNCIL ITEM 2.3 IS THE ITEM THAT I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE UP NOW BASED ON THE PUBLIC HEARING. WELL, I DON'T KNOW THAT. DO WE HAVE THOSE, MS. CITY SECRETARY, WE HAVE THOSE BROKEN OUT IN ORDER. YES. IF YOU WANTED TO TAKE UP 2.3 NOW YOU CAN. I WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT. THAT WAY WE CAN CONTINUE WITH CONVERSATION MAYBE. [00:55:01] ITEM 2.3 I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE UP FOR CONSIDERATION AND ACTION AND THEN REFER YOU TO THE LANGUAGE AND ENTERTAIN A MOTION. I MOVE FOR ADOPTION OF ORDINANCE NUMBER 8270 IN ADOPTING THE BUDGET FOR FISCAL YEAR OCTOBER 1, 2026 THROUGH SEPTEMBER 30, 2027 FOR THE CITY OF AMARILLO. SECOND. OKAY, I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO ADOPT THE BUDGET, WHICH IS ITEM 2.3. DO I HAVE ANY COMMENTS? CONCERNS? COUNCILMAN. I TELL YOU WHAT, I DON'T HAVE ANY SPECIFICALLY ON THE BUDGET. MAYBE WHEN WE GET THROUGH, I JUST HAVE ONE COMMENT ON THE BUDGET PROCESS, BUT THAT DOESN'T AFFECT WHAT WE'RE ABOUT TO VOTE ON. REAL GOOD. DO I HAVE ANY DISCUSSION ON ITEM 2.3? OKAY. AT THIS TIME, I'D LIKE YOU TO RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND SAY AYE IF YOU'RE IN FAVOR. ALL IN FAVOR, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? IF YOU RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND SAY NAY. NO. OKAY. THE CITY SECRETARY HAS IT RECORDED OVER THERE. NOW WE'RE GOING TO MOVE BACK TO ITEM 2.2, A PUBLIC HEARING ON THE TAX INCREASE. [2.2. PUBLIC HEARING ON TAX INCREASE: THE CITY OF AMARILLO IS CONSIDERING A TAX RATE OF $0.43070, WHICH IS GREATER THAN THE CURRENT RATE. THIS TAX RATE WILL RAISE MORE TAXES FOR MAINTENANCE AND OPERATIONS THAN LAST YEAR’S TAX RATE. THE TAX RATE WILL EFFECTIVELY BE RAISED BY 2.9 PERCENT AND WILL RAISE TAXES FOR MAINTENANCE AND OPERATIONS ON A $100,000 HOME BY APPROXIMATELY $9.00.] AT THIS TIME, I'D LIKE TO OPEN A PUBLIC HEARING ON ITEM 2.2. DO I HAVE ANYONE HERE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST THIS ITEM? MR. FISHER, PLEASE COME BACK UP. IT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU CUT ME OFF AT THREE MINUTES. I'LL TRY TO KEEP IT ON POINT WITH WHAT WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT. LIKE LAST YEAR, WE HAD THE ISSUES WITH FINDING MONEY LATER AFTER WE HAD ALREADY RAISED TAXES. WHAT CAN WE DO DIFFERENTLY THIS YEAR? BECAUSE IF WE RAISE TAXES, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE FORENSIC AUDIT. WHAT IF WE FIND A BUNCH OF MONEY? I'M I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE I FEEL LIKE STAFF SAID, HEY, MAN, THERE'S SOME EXTRA MONEY THERE. WE'RE GOING TO SPEND THAT MONEY BECAUSE YOU GOT THE CO FOR 30 MILLION AND THEN YOU FOUND 40. BUT WE DIDN'T PAY OFF THAT $30 MILLION CO FROM WHAT I COULD SEE, WHICH SEEMS LIKE YOU SHOULD HAVE. BUT WHAT IF THERE'S A BUNCH MORE MONEY SOMEWHERE? CAN YOU GUYS AT LEAST GIVE KIND OF A COMMITMENT TO EVEN YOU'RE NOT REDOING THE BUDGET, BUT A COMMITMENT TO PAY DOWN SOME STUFF. LIKE IF YOU FIND THE MONEY IS THERE, IS THAT SOMETHING YOU GUYS WOULD BE WILLING TO COMMIT TO? SO I CAN HOLD YOU TO IT LATER. YEAH. THANK YOU. IF YOU WOULD LET ME ENGAGE WITH YOU ON THIS ONE AS WELL, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S GOOD FOR EVERYBODY TO HEAR IT. SO THIS YEAR, LET'S USE THE WORD FOUND VERY LIBERALLY, RIGHT? SO LET'S SAY WE FOUND AN EXTRA $10 MILLION IN SALES TAX. WELL THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED, RIGHT. SO WE PROJECTED OUR SALES TAX AT 80 MILLION. WE BUILT OUR BUDGET ON THAT. WE WE RAN AN EFFICIENT BUSINESS LIKE ORGANIZATION AND WE HELD OURSELVES WITHIN THAT 80 MILLION. SO WE DIDN'T GO SPEND 85 OR 90 OR WHATEVER. NOW WE DID HAVE SOME BUDGET AMENDMENTS THAT YOU COULD POINT TO JUST THAT SALES TAX PIECE, BUT REALLY YOU HAVE SOME OTHER FACTORS IN THERE. SO JUST FOR CONSIDERATION OR CONVERSATION HERE, WE FOUND $10 MILLION. WELL, WE DIDN'T GO FIND IT BECAUSE IT WAS HIDDEN SOMEWHERE LIKE IT CAME TO US IN THE SOURCE OF INCREASED REVENUES, UNEXPECTED REVENUES. THIS COUNCIL DIDN'T USE THAT 10 MILLION TO GO PAY DOWN DEBT. RIGHT. SO I THINK WHAT WHAT I WANT YOU TO HEAR ME SAY IS THERE MAY BE SOME PREVIOUS DEBT THAT'S ON THOSE ROLLS THAT I WOULDN'T PERSONALLY FEEL LIKE IS GOOD BUSINESS FUNDED DEBT. RIGHT. I BELIEVE OUR FLEET AND I BELIEVE OUR FIRE APPARATUS, I THINK THOSE ARE PROGRAMS THAT ARE BUILT INTO THE TAX RATE NOW. AND CAN BE CONSIDERED SO THAT THEY TURN OVER THOSE FLEET SERVICES EVERY 5 TO 7 YEARS. AND I WOULD CALL THAT GOOD DEBT, JUST LIKE IF I WAS GOING TO PAY CASH FOR A VEHICLE, KNOWING I WAS GOING TO WEAR IT OUT IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, WOULD I BE BETTER TO JUST MAKE PAYMENTS ON THAT AND BUILD IT INTO MY COST WITH MY COMPANY, OR SHOULD I SEPARATE WITH THE CASH? SO BECAUSE THERE COULD BE THE POTENTIAL, AND I LOVE THE FACT YOU'RE BRINGING UP THE FORENSIC AUDIT. THE FORENSIC AUDIT HOPEFULLY WILL SHOW US WHERE THE MONEY'S BEEN SPENT. AND THEN IF THERE ARE MONIES THAT ARE THAT ARE LEFT THERE, I WOULD HOPE THAT FUTURE COUNCIL THAT WILL BE IN CHARGE OF THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO SPEND THAT MONEY WITH A CONVERSATION AT THAT POINT IN TIME OF IS IT HEALTHIER TO PAY DOWN DEBT, OR IS IT HEALTHIER TO GO AND DO A PROJECT RIGHT THAT YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO BORROW TO GO DO? OR DO YOU USE THAT CASH AND YOU BORROW MONEY? THERE'S THREE CONVERSATIONS AT WORK THERE. SO NO PUSHBACK IN THIS ONE, JUST APPRECIATION FOR YOU TO LIKE YOU TO POINT OUT THE FACT THAT WE ARE HOLDING YOUR TAX RATE FLAT. WE ARE SPEAKING TO IT THAT THAT IS A TAX INCREASE. [01:00:02] WHAT IS IT, $9 PER $100,000 HOUSE? I DON'T KNOW TOO MANY PEOPLE THAT GET TO LIVE IN $100,000 HOME ANYMORE. SO WE REALLY SHOULD SAY THAT THAT $250,000 HOUSE, THAT'S $23, RIGHT? THAT'S REALLY WHAT THAT WOULD THAT WOULD EQUATE TO. SO LESS THAN $2 A MONTH ON A QUARTER MILLION DOLLAR APPRAISAL. EVERYBODY CAN HEAR THAT AND I THINK UNDERSTAND IT. SO WE BELIEVE THAT IS A BALANCED BUDGET TAX RATE THAT GETS ALL OF OUR BUSINESS TAKEN CARE OF AND PAID FOR. AND THEN WE ARE HOPING TO FREE UP MONIES. AND HERE'S REALLY WHERE I HOPE THAT FORENSIC AUDIT COMES BACK. I THINK THERE'S EXISTING PROJECTS THAT MUCH LIKE YOU SAY, OR TIM SAYS, WELL, WE'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THESE BIDS OR WE'RE DOING THAT. WHAT YOU DON'T GET TO SEE IS JERRY DANFORTH MANAGING CONSTRUCTION IN THE FIELD ON A DAILY BASIS WITH HIS TEAM THAT IS BRINGING PROJECTS IN AT 20, 30% BELOW BUDGETS. AND IT'S BECAUSE THE BUDGETS WERE CONSIDERED, I GUESS LONG. AND THEN HE'S MANAGING CONTRACTORS WELL MAYBE REDESIGNING SOME THINGS THAT DIDN'T NEED TO BE IN THEM. THERE'S A VARIETY OF SOURCES, BUT THEN AS WE CAPTURE ALL THAT, WE BRING THAT BACK TO COUNCIL? ULTIMATELY, THAT'S YOUR MONEY, RIGHT? WE DON'T THE CITY OF AMARILLO DOESN'T HAVE A DOLLAR. YOU, THE TAXPAYER, HAVE ALL THOSE MONIES. THAT'S YOUR MONEY THAT'S IN THERE. AND IT HAS TO COME BACK TO COUNCIL. ESSENTIALLY, WHAT WE FIXED IS THE FACT THAT THAT WOULD REMAIN OUTSIDE OF THIS ROOM AND OUTSIDE OF THIS CONVERSATION, AND THOSE MONIES WOULD FLOW. AND SO THAT'S THE PROBLEM WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE. YOU'VE LET ME SPEAK TO IT PRETTY WELL. I'LL LET YOU SAY ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE, AND THEN WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE. WELL I'LL JUST FINISH WITH ONE THING. I MEAN, COMING IN UNDER BUDGET IS I THINK THAT'S I MEAN, THAT'S AN OXYMORON WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE TWO THINGS THAT ARE OXYMORONS WHEN IT COMES TO GOVERNMENT IS ON TIME AND UNDER BUDGET. AND I REALLY WOULD DISAGREE THAT DANFORTH IS WORKING HARD TO BRING THINGS IN UNDER BUDGET. HE USED TO ALWAYS SAY THAT ABOUT THE BALLPARK. AND I SAID, WOULD YOU PLEASE STOP SAYING THAT? THIS IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE BALLPARK EVER BUILT IN THE HISTORY OF BALLPARKS, EVER PER SEAT EVER. HOW COULD YOU NOT COME IN UNDER BUDGET AND TO FIND 40 SOMETHING MILLION THAT THAT WAS IT WAS PADDED IN THERE. AND I KNOW PEOPLE THAT ARE CONNECTED THAT LIKE THE CITY COMES IN AND SAYS IT'S GOING TO COST THIS MUCH TO BRING IN PIPE TO THEIR BUSINESS, AND THEN THEY GO OUT AND GET AN ESTIMATE FROM A PRIVATE CONTRACTOR, AND IT'S HALF TO TWO THIRDS OF THE PRICE. SO THOSE IT APPEARS THAT THAT CIP STUFF IS VERY DELIBERATE, VERY DELIBERATE TO PAD THOSE. SO THEN THEY COULD CIRCUMVENT THE SYSTEM AND MOVE THAT MONEY AROUND WITHOUT YOUR AUTHORIZATION. I MEAN, THEY ADMITTED TO THAT. SO I MEAN, JUST, JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN YOU JUST NOT TOO LONG AGO, YOU GOT TO SIT UP HERE FOR HOURS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THIS BUDGET. NOBODY COULD ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. AND THEN YOU COME BACK THE NEXT WEEK AND THEY STILL CAN'T ANSWER IT. THEN THE NEXT TIME THEY STILL ARE ALL MESSED UP. THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON HERE THAT THAT WE'RE TRYING. I DON'T KNOW, IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE VERY CONTENTIOUS WITH THE ARGUMENT OVER MONEY. AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN WE'RE GOING TO BELIEVE EVERYTHING THAT THEY'RE SAYING HERE. I MEAN, WE'VE REALLY GOT TO HOLD THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE AND MAKE SURE THAT THE SAME PRACTICES AREN'T HAPPENING WHERE YOU FOUND THE MONEY. POINT WELL TAKEN. THANK YOU. SO APPRECIATE YOU SPEAKING. AND ONCE AGAIN, IT'S A BALANCE. I THINK IT'S A MIXED BAG AND WE'RE NOT TRYING TO PLACATE IT. SO YES, SIR. YOU HAVE A COMMENT. I DO. I JUST ABSOLUTELY IF THERE'S EXCESS CASH OR EXCESS FUNDS, WE SHOULD LOOK AT PAYING DOWN DEBT. BUT I LIKEN IT TAKING IT TO MY OWN HOME. IF I HAVE A 3% MORTGAGE RATE RIGHT NOW AND I CAN PAY OFF MY MORTGAGE WITH MY MONEY, WOULD I PAY OFF THE MORTGAGE AT 3%? OR WOULD I INVEST THAT MONEY IN 10 TO 12%? SO I WOULD ABSOLUTELY. IF THE INVESTMENT AND THE ECONOMICS MAKE SENSE AND THE FINANCIAL RATE OF RETURN. BUT IF WE HAVE THAT EXCESS, IF WE HAVE 3% RATES OR WHAT IS OUR STANDARD BOND RATE RIGHT NOW, ABOUT 4.2, MAYBE 4.2 SOMEWHERE IN THERE. WE KNOW CONSTRUCTION'S GOING UP 10, 12, 15% YEAR ON YEAR. DOES IT MAKE MORE SENSE. AND I THIS WOULD JUST BE MY QUESTION TO THE GROUP. DOES IT MAKE MORE SENSE TO ALLOCATE FUNDS TODAY INSTEAD OF IN FIVE YEARS? BECAUSE WE KNOW THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS WERE, WHAT, 400 MILLION, 500 MILLION WHEN WE FIRST STARTED TALKING ABOUT THIS, WHAT HOW MANY YEARS AGO WAS THAT? YEAH, FIRST, BUT WE HEARD BUT MANY YEARS AGO WHEN WE HEARD PREVIOUS COUNCILS HEARD THIS. [01:05:05] WHAT WAS IT, 400, 500 MILLION. YEAH. AND I THINK THAT WAS SOMEWHERE AROUND 21 OR 22, I DON'T REMEMBER. YEAH. SO JUST WITH THE INFLATIONARY PRESSURES THAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING IN THAT COMPRESSION OF VALUE FOR DOLLARS, IT. HOW ARE THOSE DOLLARS, THOSE FINITE DOLLARS USED TO MAXIMIZE OUTPUT FOR THE CITY? SO I GUESS YOU ASK, WOULD WE PAY OFF DEBT? YES, ABSOLUTELY, IF IT MAKES SENSE TO PAY THAT DEBT OFF ON THE RETURN VERSUS WHAT THE WHAT THE COST OF THOSE PROJECTS ARE. YOU ASK GREAT QUESTIONS, YOU MAKE SOME GOOD POINTS AND THEN COUNCIL PRETTY SHARP, HONESTLY. IT'S A DULL KNIFE THAT WE'RE FORCED TO USE, RIGHT? IT'S CALLED GOVERNMENT. FOLLOW UP. YEAH. COME BACK. WE'RE ONLY DOING THIS THE ONE TIME THOUGH. DON'T THINK THIS IS A PRECEDENT THAT WE'RE TRYING. IT'S A HEARING, RIGHT. LIKE THAT POINTS ARE WELL TAKEN. LIKE FOR INSTANCE, I BOUGHT A TRACTOR LIKE A BOBCAT TRACTOR, 0% INTEREST AND I HAD THE MONEY TO GO BUY IT. BUT WHY BUY IT? I PUT THE MONEY IN A CD AND THEN I GOT A 0% INTEREST. SO I'M GOING TO END UP WITH TEN GRAND BY THE TIME I PAY IT OFF. JUST DIDN'T OR WHATEVER. AND INTEREST. BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GOVERNMENT MONEY. IT NEVER GETS BACK TO THE PEOPLE. LIKE IT'S DIFFERENT. IT'S A DIFFERENT MENTALITY WHEN IT'S YOUR PRIVATE BUSINESS BECAUSE SOMEBODY SEES THAT MONEY EVERY TIME IT WORKS OUT THIS WAY, YOU GO UP. WHEN WE BOUGHT THE WATER RIGHTS FROM T BOONE PICKENS, THE WATER BILL WENT FROM LIKE 16 BUCKS TO I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS MINIMUM LIKE IT DOUBLED. AND THEN WHEN IT'S TIME TO PAY OFF THAT IT'S ALMOST DONE, WE FIND ANOTHER WAY TO MAKE UP THAT DIFFERENCE. SO WE CAN'T, EVEN THOUGH IT MAKES MORE SENSE WITH THE MONEY. FROM WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, WE NEVER GET IT BACK. SO THAT'S MY POINT IS TO IT'S PROBABLY BETTER TO PAY OFF THE DEBT BECAUSE WE'RE NEVER GOING TO GET IT BACK IF WE DON'T. WE'RE NOT. IF YOU GUYS MAKE THE MOVE RIGHT NOW, LIKE IT MAKES BETTER SENSE TO LIKE WITH THE INTEREST OR WHATEVER INVESTMENTS, WE'RE STILL NEVER GOING TO GET IT BACK. SO YOU'RE BETTER OFF JUST PAYING IT OFF OR WHATEVER IT IS, LIKE PAY OFF SOMETHING EXISTING, WHATEVER IT IS, OR GIVE US THAT MONEY BACK. WE WENT UP THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF THAT 30 MILLION CO WE HAD TO GO UP TO MAKE UP FOR THAT. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT TO JUST SAY, HEY MAN, IT LOOKS LIKE WE SCREWED UP ON THAT 30 MILLION CO. WE'RE GOING TO END UP WITH 10 MILLION EXTRA. LET'S JUST PAY IT OFF. WE THAT WAS A MISTAKE AND WE SHOULD HAVE GOT IT BACK. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I GET THE BIG PICTURE. AND THAT MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE. BUT I THINK IT'S BETTER TO JUST DO IT NOW AND NOT LET SOMEBODY ELSE MANIPULATE THE SITUATION TO KEEP THAT NUMBER THE SAME, LIKE WITH THE WATER BILL DEAL. SO THANK YOU. THANKS FOR LETTING ME TALK. WELL, JUST ON THAT NOTE, YES, I STRUGGLE WITH GOVERNMENT SPENDING GOVERNMENT THOUGHT. I MEAN, IT'S SO FOREIGN TO ME. SO ONE OF MY REASONS, AND I LIKE THESE PUBLIC HEARINGS. THESE ARE PRODUCTIVE. SHOULD DO MORE OF THEM COLE. LET ME TALK MORE. SO WHEN I ASKED FREEMAN ABOUT 21 BILLION VALUE OF THE CITY, I WAS SITTING THERE AND I GO, WHAT HAVE EVERYBODY THAT'S COME BEFORE US IN THIS CITY, WHAT HAVE THEY PUT DOWN IN TAXES, IN THEIR PAYMENTS AND EVERYTHING TO CREATE AMARILLO. OKAY. AND AS A CITIZEN OF AMARILLO, IF THE VALUE IS $21 BILLION, YOU DIVIDE THAT BY 204,000 PEOPLE. IT'S ROUGHLY $100,000 AND SOME CHANGE. SO WE AS CITIZENS EACH HAVE A VESTED INTEREST. NOW, WE'RE NOT GOING TO CUT CHECKS FOR $100,000. I MEAN, THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. BUT LIVING IN THIS CITY, AND IF YOU'VE BEEN HERE A LONG TIME OR YOU'VE BEEN HERE A DAY, YOU KNOW, THE KIDS THAT ARE BEING BORN RIGHT NOW, EVERY CITIZEN FROM EVERYONE THAT'S DONE. AND HOW MANY YEARS HAVE WE BEEN IN BEEN IN EXISTENCE 120 YEARS. WHAT IS IT? I DON'T KNOW. LONG TIME. SO EACH CITIZEN HAS BASICALLY A HUNDRED GRAND INVESTED. SO AS WE GO FORWARD, WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE THAT ON OUR BALANCE SHEET. BUT KNOWING THAT THAT IS WHAT EVERY CITIZEN HAS PUT FORWARD. AND IF YOU THROW IN THE WATER RIGHTS, WE'RE AT ABOUT $400,000 EACH IS WHAT EACH CITIZEN HAS IN VALUE IN THIS CITY. AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY'S EVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, BUT I GOT A LITTLE PROUD WHEN I THOUGHT, MAN, THAT'S PRETTY COOL, BECAUSE IT'S NOT THAT IT JUST GOES INTO THIS BLACK HOLE OF GONE. IT'S THAT WE'RE CONSTANTLY MAKING THIS A BETTER PLACE. HOPEFULLY. AND I'LL ADD TO YOUR FORMULA LIKE DIVIDE IN THE NUMBER OF YEARS OF HOW MANY PEOPLE. [01:10:05] SO WE HAVE TO HAVE AN EQUATION OF WHEN THE INVESTMENT FIRST STARTED. SO TO YOUR POINT EARLIER ABOUT BUYING FUTURE WATER RIGHTS, WE REALLY SHOULD TAKE THAT FULL EQUATION AND SAY, HOW MUCH DID PEOPLE PAY BEFORE US TO HELP US? LIKE THEY LEFT MONEY ON THE TABLE. SO HOW MUCH ARE WE BASED ON THAT FORMULA? WE SHOULD USE THAT TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH ARE WE WILLING TO LEAVE ON THE TABLE. BECAUSE WE HAVE 150 YEARS, NOBODY'S GOING TO BE HERE WHEN THAT WATER RUNS OUT EXISTING RIGHT NOW. SO WE SHOULD FIGURE OUT WHAT IS, WHAT'S THE AMOUNT LEFT ON THE TABLE AND BE A BIG ME AND YOU CAN SIT DOWN AND WE'LL FIGURE IT OUT. BUT I THINK THAT'S WHERE YOU GOT TO FIGURE OUT A NUMBER THAT SAYS, HOW MANY YEARS SHOULD WE BUY? CAN WE GET A 50, 60 YEAR BOND? I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S EVEN POSSIBLE. SO WE CAN LET OTHER PEOPLE HELP PAY FOR 100 PAST 150 YEARS. LIKE, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? WE SHOULD HAVE MORE WATER THAN ANYBODY ELSE IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD DRAW PEOPLE HERE. THANK YOU. IT'S AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION. THANK YOU. YOU KNOW, THIS PUBLIC HEARING HAS TURNED INTO MORE OF CIVICS, OPEN DISCUSSION, PROBLEM SOLVING THAN ANYTHING. AND I'M THANKFUL FOR IT. AND I AGREE WITH YOU. I THINK THE MORE OF THESE WE HAVE, THE BETTER WE'LL GET. WE HAVE A LOT OF SIGNIFICANT PROBLEMS THAT ARE GOING TO REQUIRE PEOPLE TO COME IN AND ENGAGE IN A CIVICS UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT, HOW DOES IT WORK, WHOSE MONEY IS THAT REALLY? AND ARE WE ALL STAKEHOLDERS? ARE WE ALL SHAREHOLDERS? DO WE ALL HAVE A VALUE IN THE INCORPORATED CITY LIMITS, OR DO WE JUST FEEL LIKE IT'S BIG GOVERNMENT THAT NEVER HEARS US, NEVER LISTENS AND NEVER TAKES ANY ACTION? SO I THINK TODAY'S DISCUSSION POINTS TO THE, YOU KNOW, THE BETTER PART OF THE CONVERSATION. SO THANK YOU ALL FOR ENGAGING. DO I HAVE ANYONE ELSE HERE WHO'D LIKE TO OFFER PUBLIC COMMENT BEFORE OR OFFER ANYTHING FOR OR AGAINST THIS ITEM DURING THIS PUBLIC HEARING? OKAY. SEEING NO ONE, I'M GOING TO CLOSE ITEM 2.2, WHICH IS THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THE TAX RATE INCREASE. AND I'M GOING TO FLIP OVER TO ITEM 2.4, WHICH IS YOUR CONSIDERATION COUNCIL AND POINT YOU TO THE APPROPRIATE LANGUAGE AS [2.4. Consideration of Ordinance No. 8271 Approving the City of Amarillo Tax Roll, Setting an Ad Valorem Property Tax Rate and Levying a Tax on all Property Subject to Taxation within the City for the 2026 Tax Year. This is the second and final reading of an ordinance approving the City of Amarillo tax roll, setting an ad valorem property tax rate and levying a tax on all property subject to taxation within the City for the 2026 tax year. This ordinance establishes an ad valorem tax rate of $0.32412 per $100.00 property valuation for City maintenance and operations expenses and $0.10658 per $100.00 property valuation for existing debt expenses resulting in a total ad valorem rate of $0.43070 per $100.00 property valuation.] WELL. I MOVE THAT THE PROPERTY TAX RATE BE INCREASED BY THE ADOPTION OF A TAX RATE OF 0.43070, WHICH IS EFFECTIVELY A 2.13% INCREASE IN THE TAX RATE. SECOND. OKAY. I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FROM PLACE TWO. DO I HAVE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND SAY YEA. YEA ANY OPPOSED? RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND SAY NAY. NAY. OKAY. MOTION PASSES ON ITEM 2.4. ALL RIGHT. COUNCILMAN SIMPSON I'M GOING TO STOP AND PAUSE HERE. IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO RATIFICATION. WELL, I WOULD SAY ONE THING. I JUST WANT TO ADD KIND OF A LESSON I GUESS I'VE LEARNED FROM THE BUDGET PROCESS. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WOULD APPLY TO ANYBODY ELSE, BUT WHEN WE GO BACK AND LOOK AT KIND OF WHAT'S HAPPENED BACK IN MID-JULY CITY MANAGER PASSED AND EMAILED TO HIS LEADERSHIP TEAM ABOUT THIS BUDGET, ABOUT THE PREPARATIONS FOR IT. AND IN THAT EMAIL, HE ASKED ANDREW FREEMAN TO OVERSEE AND COORDINATE THE TEAM'S PREPARATIONS AND KIND OF OVERSEE THE BUDGET. THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT IS NOW UNDER HIM AND ALSO BROUGHT LAURA STORRS BACK TO HELP PROVIDE HISTORY AND CONTEXT FROM PRIOR BUDGETS. SO WE HAD A LOT OF EXPERIENCE, I GUESS YOU WOULD SAY, TO WORK ON THE BUDGET. AND I BRING THAT UP. I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO POINT FINGERS OR ASSIGN BLAME, BUT I BRING IT UP BECAUSE I THINK IT ILLUSTRATES AN IMPORTANT POINT FOR US TO LEARN. YOU KNOW, INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE IS VALUABLE, BUT IT STILL HAS TO BE VERIFIED. AND WE HAVE TO BE WILLING TO CHALLENGE ASSUMPTIONS EVEN WHEN SOMETHING HAS BEEN DONE THE SAME WAY FOR YEARS. AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BUDGET, WE HAD SOME SIGNIFICANT ISSUES THAT HAD TO BE CORRECTED. THE TRUTH IN TAXATION FORM, THIS WAS OUR SEVENTH BUDGET CYCLE UNDER THE CURRENT 3.5% VOTER APPROVAL SYSTEM. WE'VE BEEN USING IT, BUT WE STILL HAD ERRORS IN THE CALCULATION THAT HAD TO BE CORRECTED. AND THE TIRZ WE DISCOVERED THAT OUR TREATMENT OF TIER WAS EFFECTIVELY RECOGNIZED IN THE TIRZ IMPACT IN TWO DIFFERENT PLACES IN THE CALCULATION. ON THE DEBT SIDE, WE HAD ABOUT $1 MILLION OF DEBT THAT WASN'T INCLUDED. THAT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN. AND THEN THERE WAS SOME DEBT TIMING ON THE WATER AND SEWER DRAINAGE ISSUE WHERE THEY WERE MISTIMED. THE GOOD NEWS IS ALL THOSE ERRORS ULTIMATELY WORKED OUT IN THE FAVOR AND NOT WORSE NEWS, BUT AND THERE'S A COUPLE OTHER EXAMPLES THAT I WANT WANT TO GIVE ALONG THESE SAME [01:15:04] LINES, NOT WITH THE BUDGET, BUT WITH SOMETHING ELSE. BUT BEFORE I MOVE ON, I DO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WHEN THE MAYOR QUESTIONED SOME OF THESE NUMBERS, I DEFENDED THE STAFF AND SAID WE NEEDED TO TRUST THE NUMBERS WE WERE BEING GIVEN. SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS TURNED OUT TO BE WRONG. THE MAYOR WAS RIGHT TO QUESTION THEM, AND I WAS WRONG TO DISMISS THOSE CONCERNS. THERE'S TWO MORE EXAMPLES THAT KIND OF FOLLOW ALONG THE SAME LINE. THE ROAD BOND MONEY SIGNIFICANT PROCEEDS FROM THE 21 BOND ISSUANCE REMAIN UNSPENT SEVERAL YEARS LATER THAT AFFECTED OUR ABILITY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH ADDITIONAL STREET DEBT AND PROJECTS. AND AT THE SAME TIME, CONSTRUCTION COSTS WERE INCREASING, MEANING THOSE BOND DOLLARS THAT WE APPROVED IN 21 WERE NOT BUYING AS MUCH AS THEY COULD IF THE PROJECTS HAD HAVE MOVED FORWARD SOONER, AND THEN WE GET TO THE CAPITAL PROJECTS AND WE HAD, YOU KNOW, WE ALSO HAD COMPLETED OR INACTIVE CAPITAL PROJECTS REMAIN OPEN WITH THE MONEY SITTING IN THOSE ACCOUNTS. ONCE WE BEGAN REVIEWING THAT, THAT FREED UP THE THE $43 MILLION THAT COULD BE PUT BACK TO WORK. I DON'T RAISE ANY OF THIS TO KIND OF LOOK BACKWARD OR ASSIGN BLAME. I RAISED IT BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A LESSON WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD HERE. INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE IS IMPORTANT, BUT IT'S GOT TO BE VERIFIED AND IT NEEDS TO BE PAIRED WITH THE CHALLENGES, A WILLINGNESS TO CHALLENGE OUR OWN ASSUMPTIONS. AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'VE ALWAYS DONE IT THAT WAY. CAN'T BE THE REASON WE ASSUME WE'RE DOING IT THE RIGHT WAY. THANK YOU. COUNCILMAN SIMPSON. THANK YOU. MAN, WITH HUMILITY, I WOULD SAY NOT JUST TO TRY TO BRUSH IT OFF, BUT TO JUST SAY LIKE, I SIT ON A REALLY STRONG TEAM AND I GOT GOOD PEOPLE AROUND ME AND I HAVE A SHOVEL AND I DIG. AND SOMETIMES I THINK IT'D BE BETTER IF I COULD PUT IT DOWN. BUT EVERY TIME I PUT IT DOWN, I GET INTO THE BACKHOE AND I START DIGGING WITH THE BACKHOE. AND SO LIKE, I HOPE I CAN COUNT ON YOUR SUPPORT AND THE SUPPORT OF COUNCIL AS I CONTINUE TO LEAD FORWARD ON AN IN DEPTH FORENSIC ACCOUNTING AND AUDIT AND CONTINUE TO LOOK INTO SOME OF THESE OTHER AREAS BECAUSE I THINK WE DO HAVE SOME HISTORY HERE OF SHOWING WHEN WE ARE LOOKING FOR VERIFICATION, WE ARE FINDING WHAT ENDS UP TO BE A GOOD OUTCOME, AS YOU SAY, RIGHT? WELL, WE OVER PROJECTED OUR DEBT SERVICE. SO IT'S ACTUALLY GOOD ON OUR IN OUR FAVOR. BUT ULTIMATELY I APPRECIATE THE COMPLIMENT, BUT I WOULDN'T ACCEPT THE COMPLIMENT AS ANYTHING THAT I'M DOING. I JUST THINK THIS IS WHAT OUR CITIZENS ARE DOING AS WELL. AND I'M LISTENING AND HEARING THOSE PEOPLE POINT OUT THINGS. YOU KNOW, THE ROAD MONIES WAS BROUGHT TO ME BY A CITIZEN WHEN I WAS A COUNCIL PLACE ONE AND HE SAID, HEY, JUST ASK FOR ALL OF THE LIST, YOU KNOW, AND THEN GO AND LOOK AT THOSE. SO ALL OF IT COMES TOGETHER, I THINK WHEN WE WORK WELL AS A TEAM. SO I JUST TELL YOU, I APPRECIATE YOUR KIND WORDS. I WILL LOOK FOR YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT AS WE LOOK, AS WE MOVE FORWARD. AND THEN I THINK ALL IN ALL, WE CONTINUE TO GO THE RIGHT DIRECTION. MY CRITICISM OF THE PRESENTATION, WHICH I CRITICIZED IT OPENLY OF THE BUDGET, IT HASN'T BEEN DONE IN A PROFESSIONAL WAY. AND I WANT TO REMIND EVERYBODY, WE ARE NOT PROFESSIONALS. I KNOW WE WANT TO HOLD A VERY PROFESSIONAL MEETING, BUT WE MEET WITH IN CITIZENS THAT SOMETIMES FOR THE FIRST TIME ENGAGE WITH THEIR CIVIC LEADER. THEY'RE NOT PROFESSIONALS. THEY DON'T APPROACH THE MICROPHONE SOMETIMES WITH THE PROFESSIONALISM AND WE DON'T ALWAYS GET TO OPERATE IN PROFESSIONALISM. SO THE VERY HIGH BAR OF KIND OF THE CRITICISM OF IT ALWAYS HAVING TO BE A PROFESSIONAL BUDGET. I JUST WANT IT TO BE ACCURATE. I JUST WANT IT TO BE WHAT'S BEST AND THE OUTCOME. SO I'M VERY MUCH NOT CONCERNED WITH THE OPTICS AT THIS POINT IN TIME. AND SO I APPRECIATE YOUR WORDS. COUNCILMAN SIMPSON. AND LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING ALONGSIDE YOU AND THE REST OF THIS COUNCIL. 2.5 RATIFICATION. DO WE HAVE ANYTHING STAFF THAT WE NEED YOU GUYS TO COVER BEFORE WE TAKE THIS ITEM UP? [2.5. RATIFICATION – CITY OF AMARILLO TAX RATE AND BUDGET: Pursuant to the terms of Tex. Loc. Gov. Code, Sec. 102.007(c), the City Council is required to take a separate ratification vote on the tax rate when the adopted budget requires more property tax revenue than did the previous year’s budget.] NO, SIR. GENTLEMEN, ITEM 2.5 WITH SOME LANGUAGES BEFORE YOU. I MOVE THAT WE RATIFY THE BUDGET AND TAX RATE AS ADOPTED FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026-27. RECOGNIZE SUCH BUDGET WILL REQUIRE MORE REVENUE FROM PROPERTY TAXES THAN DID THE BUDGET ADOPTED LAST YEAR. SECOND. MOTION AND A SECOND WAS THAT PLACE ONE? YES, SIR. MOTION AND A SECOND FROM PLACE ONE. ANY DISCUSSION ON ITEM 2.5? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND SAY NAY. NAY. OKAY. WE HAVE A RATIFIED BUDGET AND APPROVED TAX RATE AND EVERYTHING DONE ON THAT ITEM. [01:20:07] WE WILL MOVE INTO ITEM 2.6, WHICH IS OUR TIRZ THREE. [2.6. Consideration of Resolution No. 09-22-26-2. This item is the second and final reading to consider a resolution approving the proposed operating budget for the fiscal year 2026-2027 for South Gateway Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone No. 3. (Lola Ogunremi, Chief Financial Officer)] MISS LOLA, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING THAT YOU NEED TO ADD TO THIS? NO, SIR. OKAY. I KNOW WE'RE POSTING THE BUDGET HIGHLIGHTS. YOU HAVE ALREADY COVERED THE BUDGET A COUPLE DIFFERENT TIMES. WE'VE HEARD IT. COUNCIL, DO YOU HAVE ANY NEED FOR A DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? NO. OKAY. ITEM 2.6 IS BEFORE YOU. I MOVE TO ADOPT RESOLUTION NUMBER 0922-26-2 AS PRESENTED. SECOND. MOTION AND A SECOND FROM PLACE FOUR. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? MOTION PASSES WITH A FIVE ZERO VOTE. ITEM 2.7. MISS LOLA I JUST WANT TO DEFER TO YOU ONE MORE TIME. [2.7. Consideration of Resolution No. 09-22-26-3. This item is the second and final reading to consider a resolution approving the proposed operating budget for the fiscal year 2026-2027 for Amarillo-Potter Events Venue District. (Lola Ogunremi, Chief Financial Officer)] I'M NOT EXPECTING YOU TO DO ANYTHING, BUT IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING, YOU COULD ADD IT. NO, SIR. NO. OKAY, GREAT. ONCE AGAIN, WE HAVE AN EXISTING BUDGET THAT WAS ALREADY PRESENTED TO YOU. WE HAVE IT POSTED HERE. DO WE HAVE ANY NEED FOR A DISCUSSION? ITEM 2.7 BEFORE YOU. MOVE TO ADOPT RESOLUTION NUMBER 0922-26-3 AS PRESENTED. SECOND. MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? MOTION PASSES WITH A FIVE ZERO VOTE. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING OUR SPECIAL SESSION. THAT CONCLUDES ALL OF OUR WORK. IF COUNCIL WILL ALLOW US, WE'LL ADJOURN. MOTION TO ADJOURN. WE'RE SO MOVED. YOU'RE ADJOURNED. THANK YOU ALL. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.