Mar 26, 2024 City Council Special Meeting

>> GO AHEAD AND CALL

[1.A. Call to Order]

[00:00:04]

I AM GOING TO GO AHEAD AND ASK MR. HARTMAN JUST

[1.B. This item is a workshop for the City Council which may include discussion of numerous broad topics such as governance and ends policies, public safety, infrastructure, development, community services, parks and recreation, water resources, public works, finance, council strategic pillars and milestones, policies and procedures, the Amarillo City Charter, ordinances, resolutions, and other matters related to the desired direction and plans for the City. The Council may reach broad consensus on the mission, values, priorities, expectations, and governance policies for the City but no final decision or vote will occur.]

AND THEN I THINK COUNCIL WILL JUST CONTINUE TO RUN THIS MEETING AND START WITH ANY TOPICS THAT WE WANT.

I KNOW WE ASK YOU GUYS TO BRING A FEW THINGS.

IF YOU MAY JUST TELL US YOU GUYS WHO'S HERE AND ANYTHING THAT YOU WANT TO ADDRESS.

I NOTICE WE GOT MCKAMEY HERE AFTER AND BRIAN HERE FOR ANYTHING ELSE.

>> THANK YOU, MAYOR. WE DO HAVE BRIAN AND MICK.

MICK IS REMOTELY JOINING THE MEETING.

OKAY. BUT FIRST OFF, I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY ON BEHALF OF STAFF AND OUR OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THESE POLICIES AND GO THROUGH THIS IN A WORKSHOP PROCESS.

WE DO HAVE THE LEADERSHIP TEAM HERE TO HELP WITH ANY RESOURCE AND OF COURSE THE CITY SECRETARY AND OTHERS AND ANY RESOURCE THAT YOU NEED AS YOU GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS, JUST LET US KNOW.

BUT I WANT TO GREATLY APPRECIATE THIS TEAM THAT'S HERE TO HELP US TODAY. THANK YOU.

>> APPRECIATE THAT. I NOTICED WE GOT SOME MEMOS FROM MCKAMEY AND I HAD BEEN ON A CONVERSATION WITH COUNCILMAN SIMPSON AND MICK ABOUT A FEW FURTHER QUESTIONS ON ADVICE AND CONSENT OR ADVISE AND CONSENT AND A FEW OTHER THINGS.

JUST TO CLARIFY, MAYBE A DIRECTION THAT I THINK WE ALL WANT TO GO WE HAD SOME MESSAGE BOARD CONTENT THAT WENT BACK AND FORTH THAT JUST SPOKE TO, WHAT DO WE DO WITH THESE POLICIES SINCE WE'RE NOT STRICTLY ADHERING TO THEM? DO WE NEED TO STRICTLY ADHERE TO THESE? DO WE HAVE ANY INCONSISTENCIES BETWEEN CURRENT GOVERNANCE AND ENDS POLICIES AND THE GIVEN CHARTER AS IT'S BEEN FOLLOWED IN THE PAST.

WE HAD SAID SHOULD WE SUSPEND THESE FOR A TIME? I THINK WE LEFT OUR COMMUNITY AND MAYBE STAFF WITH THE IDEA THAT WE WOULDN'T FOLLOW THESE, WE WOULDN'T UPDATE THEM, WE WOULD JUST TOSS THEM AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHERE ANYBODY IS.

I THINK WE'VE READ THROUGH THESE STUDIED THEM.

I DEFINITELY HAVE A FEW CHANGES THAT I THINK ARE IMPORTANT AND WOULD BE MORE IN LINE WITH THE CHARTER AND INTERESTED TO HEAR WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THEM.

BUT I THINK THIS WORKSHOP NEEDS TO MOVE FORWARD IN THE MANNER THAT WE'RE TRYING TO IMPROVE UPON WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE THAT'S BEEN LAID NOT GO AND RELAY A FOUNDATION.

SO DO I HAVE ANY OTHER IDEAS, COMMENTS FROM COUNCIL WHERE ANYBODY SEES THIS DIFFERENTLY AS WE SET OUT ON THIS HEADING.

COUNCILMAN SIMPSON, YOU GOT ON YOUR SIDE AS WELL?

>> I AM. THANK YOU.

>> OKAY. WELL THEN DO I HAVE ANYONE THAT WOULD LIKE TO START? IF NOT, I THINK I'LL PROBABLY JUST START WITH COUNCILMAN SIMPSON AND KIND OF WORK MY WAY ACROSS THE ROOM.

DID ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING THAT THEY BROUGHT THAT THEY WANTED TO START WITH BEFORE WE JUMP INTO MAYBE A COUPLE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE PRESENTED AND WE REFLECT BACK TO THE CHARTER.

WE ALSO HAVE THE BLUEPRINT FOR AMARILLO THAT WE REFERENCED A COUPLE OF TIMES.

EVERYBODY GOT A COPY OF ALL THAT.

WE KNOW WHAT THE PILLARS WERE DOING AND WHERE THEY WERE.

DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING THEY WANT TO BRING UP FIRST OR ARE YOU GUYS GOOD JUST MOVING ALONG THROUGH THE MANUAL? I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S MINE OR NOT.

SO COUNCILMAN SIMPSON, I WOULD ASK IF I KNOW YOU CAME PREPARED AND YOU GOT A FEW THINGS.

I THINK WE'RE OKAY TO JUST HAVE A PRETTY ORGANIC DISCUSSION WHERE WE JUST HIT THE HIGHLIGHTS.

THIS IS TOO MANY DOCUMENTS TO SAY TURN TO PAGE 1 AND DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON PAGE 1 AND TURN TO PAGE 2? SO I THINK IT'LL BE IMPORTANT FOR US TO GO AHEAD AND HIT THE AREAS THAT WE WANT TO FOCUS ON FIRST AND THEN COMPREHENSIVELY I THINK WE COULD COME BACK AT THE END OF THE MEETING AND KIND OF DO A RETAKE AND A RECAP TO MAKE SURE THAT STAFF KNOWS EXACTLY THE DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL. COUNCILMAN.

>> WELL, I HAVE SUBMITTED I THINK A COUPLE OF THESE WERE ANSWERED WITH MCKAMEY'S RESPONSE, BUT AGAIN, I AGREE THAT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH A HIGH LEVEL OF THESE.

BUT THE COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT I HAD AS IT RELATED TO WHAT THE CHARTER SAYS ON MY REQUEST THAT MAYBE WE START WITH THE CHARTER FIRST WITH A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT I HAD JUST TO GET MORE CLARITY ON THAT.

BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY ANYTHING THAT IS INSIDE

[00:05:01]

WE'VE ALSO MAKES AN OPINION ON WHETHER THE CURRENT GOVERNANCE AND ENDS POLICIES FALL UNDER THE CHARTER.

BUT I GUESS IT WAS JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT I HAD.

WITH THAT A COUPLE OF THESE ARE ANSWERED.

THERE WERE A COUPLE I THINK THAT WERE NOT ANSWERED THAT MAYBE WOULD BE GOOD TO GET CLARITY ON THOSE SINCE ANYTHING THAT WE WOULD ADD, SUBTRACT OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE IN THE GOVERNOR'S ENDS POLICIES MUST FOLLOW UNDER THE CHARTER.

BUT THERE WERE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WERE IN HERE.

THE ADVISING CONSENT, THERE WAS AN AREA ABOUT I THINK I HAD A QUESTION ON AND YOU MAY HAVE THOSE BRIAN, THE APPROVING SALARIES IS SOMETHING THAT'S MENTIONED IN THE CHARTER.

THERE IS RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CITY MANAGER TO KEEP THE COUNCIL FULLY INFORMED ON THE FINANCIAL CONDITION AS WELL AS THE NEEDS OF THE CITY.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I'D LIKE TO GET A LITTLE CLARITY ON OR WHETHER THAT MAY MEAN.

SO I THINK THE ADVICE AND CONSENT, BUDGETING, KEEPING FULLY INFORMED, JUST NOT ONLY FOR US, BUT FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO READ MAKES OPINION IF SOMEONE COULD GIVE A BROAD OVERVIEW OF WHAT THOSE MEAN AS FAR AS HOW COUNCIL IS SUPPOSED TO OPERATE.

>> YEAH, SO TO SUMMARIZE THAT, IN THE WAY IN WHICH WE FULFILL SOME VERY IMPORTANT DUTIES EARLY ON AT THE BEGINNING OF YOUR TENURE.

SO ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT YOU DO WHEN YOU GET ELECTED IS YOU START WORKING ON THE BUDGET.

AND SO THE BUDGET BECOMES PRETTY PRE EMINENT AND THE BUDGET IS OFFERED AND GIVEN SOLIDIFIED WITH A TAX RATE AND THEN THERE IS A CONCEPT THAT, WELL, WE HAVE A GIVEN BUDGET, WE CAN WORK WITHIN ANY PART OF THAT BUDGET.

WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO MOVE ANYTHING TO CHANGE AND REDIRECT AND THE BALANCE THERE WOULD BE IF COUNCIL SETS PILLARS AND DIRECTION AND VISION, WE WANT STAFF TO WORK WITHIN THAT BUDGET AND THEN ADVISE US ANYTIME WE'RE NOT WITHIN THAT BUDGET.

BUT IF YOU HAVE SAVINGS WITHIN A GIVEN BUDGET AS A DIRECTOR BECAUSE YOU HAVE FULL TIME EQUIVALENTS THAT AREN'T FILLED, DO YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO SPEND THOSE MONEY'S IN OTHER WAYS WITHOUT THE ADVICE AND CONSENT OF COUNCIL WOULD BE A WAY TO PUT A POINT ON IT? AS A CITY MANAGER, DO YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAYBE CREATE A NEW POSITION, FILL ANOTHER DEPARTMENT, MOVE THINGS FROM ONE DEPARTMENT TO ANOTHER, TAKE MONEY FROM THE OVERALL BUDGET, AS LONG AS IT'S THE TAX RATE? AND SO DO YOU DO YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC QUESTION AS IT RELATES TO THAT PARTICULAR TOPIC THAT YOU'D LIKE MCKAMEY TO WEIGH IN ON?

>> WELL, I WOULD JUST START, SO THE FOUR AREAS THAT I HAD IS, AND THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT IN HERE ABOUT THIS, BUT ADVICE AND CONSENT, AND I GUESS WHAT THE CHARTER SAYS AND HOW WE NEED TO ABIDE BY THE CHARTER GOING FORWARD.

SO THERE WAS IN HERE I SEE ADVICE AND CONSENT.

IT SEEMS TO BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT AND HOW IT MAY BE HANDLED OR HOW OR OTHER CITIES HANDLED.

BUT I GUESS AT THE END OF THE DAY WHEN OUR CHARTER WAS WRITTEN WHAT WAS THE INTENTION OF THE ADVICE AND CONSENT WOULD BE MY QUESTION.

>> RIGHT?

>> WE DO HAVE MICK.

MICK, CAN YOU HEAR US OKAY?

>> WE DON'T HAVE MICK IT THIS TIME.

>> WE DON'T HAVE MICK YET.

OKAY. BRIAN, DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION YOU'D LIKE TO RENDER TO BACK UP MAYBE WHAT MCKAMEY'S PRESENTED?

>> I CERTAINLY CAN WEIGH IN.

I GUESS WHAT I WOULD SAY IS YOU'VE GOT MICK'S OPINION AND LESSI'S QUESTION HAS TO DO WITH WHAT THE INTENT OF ADVICE AND CONSENT IS.

MR. MCKAMEY DOES A GOOD JOB OF WEIGHING OUT THE HISTORY OF WHERE THAT COMES FROM, IT'S A PRETTY STANDARD CLAUSE THAT YOU SEE.

BOTH AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL AND THE STATE LEVEL THOUGH IT HAS TO DO MORE WITH THE LEGISLATIVE BODIES REVIEW OF THE APPOINTMENT OF CAMDEN.

THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT'S ABOUT.

WHEN YOU GET TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT THAT ADVICE AND CONSENT IS A VERY STANDARD PHRASE THAT YOU SEE IN LOTS OF CHARTERS.

ONCE AGAIN, IT'S MEANT TO FACILITATE, OR AT LEAST MEMORIALIZE, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT,

[00:10:01]

THE ONE THING I WOULD SAY THOUGH, THAT GIVES YOU SOME INSIGHT AS TO WHAT ADVICE AND CONSENT MEANS IN THE LIGHT OF OUR CHARTER.

WE CAN LOOK RIGHT AT THE OPERATIONAL COMPONENT FIRST BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S SOME NUANCES THERE THAT GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT THE FOUNDERS HAD IN MIND RELATED TO THAT.

FOR APPOINTEES, FOR INSTANCE, IT SAYS APPOINTEES WILL ONLY BE APPOINTED BASED UPON MERIT AND FITNESS ALONE.

THAT'S IMPORTANT. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WELL, GOING BACK TO HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE, A CABINET IS USUALLY POLITICAL APPOINTEES.

A LOT OF TIMES POLITICS ARE INVOLVED IN THOSE APPOINTMENTS.

AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, POLITICS ARE NOT INVOLVED.

THE WHOLE POINT IS CONTINUATION OF SERVICE.

THAT'S THE GOAL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

COUNCILS WILL COME AND GO, BUT STAFF MUST TRY TO OBTAIN THE MISSION THAT COUNCIL HAS FOR THEM, NO MATTER WHO IS COUNCIL.

WHEN I THINK OF THAT PARTICULAR PHRASE IN LIGHT OF THE APPOINTMENTS, I ALWAYS THINK OF THAT PARTICULAR PHRASE THAT FOLLOWS IT, THAT INDICATES THAT CLEARLY THE CITY MANAGER NEEDS TO HAVE A COMMUNICATION WITH COUNCIL.

THERE IS NO DOUBT OF THAT.

IT MEANS CHECK WITH ME AND ALWAYS HAS IN MY MIND.

HOWEVER, IT'S A GIVE AND TAKE BETWEEN WHAT THE EXPECTATIONS OF COUNCIL ARE AS THOSE COMMUNICATIONS HAVE GONE ON ORGANIC OR MAYBE EVEN MORE FORMALLY WITH MANAGEMENT, DEPENDING ON WHO THE MANAGER IS AND WHAT THOSE EXPECTATIONS ARE.

I WISHED IT WAS A CLEAR YES OR NO ANSWER, BUT IT SIMPLY IS NOT.

IT'S A COMMUNICATION CHANNEL IS WHAT IT IS. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HELPS.

>> I REALLY THINK IT IS A CLEAR COMMUNICATION BECAUSE RIGHT HERE IN THE GOVERNANCE AND ENDS POLICY, IT TELLS US THAT COUNCIL WILL DEFINE EXECUTIVE LIMITATION POLICIES SO THAT PUTS THAT BALL IN OUR COAT.

WE NEED TO DEFINE TO THE CITY MANAGER WHAT WE EXPECT.

I MEAN IF WE EXPECT A CLOSE RANGE, WE NEED TO EXPLAIN THAT, IF WE ALLOW WIDER RANGE, WE NEED TO EXPLAIN THAT.

WHERE I SEE THIS DOCUMENT, IT'S A PRETTY GOOD DOCUMENT NOW AS I'VE GONE THROUGH IT NOW, I'M JUST GIVING YOU MY TAKE HERE.

THERE'S SOME WORDS I'D LIKE TO CHANGE, THERE'S A FEW PHRASES I'D LIKE TO CHANGE.

BUT OVERALL, THE DOCUMENT TO ME IS THE SPINE OF OUR CHARTER.

THE CHARTER LAYS IT OUT, THIS DEFINES IT.

I THINK IF WE LOOK AT THIS GOVERNANCE, WE WILL SEE THAT IT IS GIVING US A DEFINITION AND WE ARE CHARGED WITH THE DUTY TO GET THAT DEFINITION AND EXPECT THAT TO OUR CITY MANAGER.

THAT'S MY TAKE.

>> I APPRECIATE THAT. EARLIER IN THAT DOCUMENT RIGHT THERE, IT SAYS COUNCIL WILL BE THE INITIATOR OF POLICY.

SO IF WE BOIL IT DOWN A LITTLE FURTHER IN HOW DO WE RIGHTLY DEFINE EXPECTATIONS WITHOUT BECOMING SO SUBJECTIVE THAT IT BECOMES THIS ISSUE OF DO I NEED TO ASK YOU IF I CAN GET A CUP OF COFFEE OR AM I OKAY TO GET UP.

IF WE HIT THE INTENT OF THE POLICY THAT'S GIVEN IN THE INTENT OF THE CHARTER, THEN YOU LOOK AT, COUNCIL IS GOING TO INITIATE THESE POLICIES.

WE'RE GOING TO GIVE DIRECTION AND VISION YOU OPERATIONALLY, THE CITY MANAGER AND THE STAFF ARE GOING TO WALK THOSE OUT WITH A CONTINUAL UPDATE AND A CONTINUAL FEEDBACK.

I THINK THE ISSUE THAT WE HAD THAT SPURRED ALL THIS WAS WE HAD AN INITIATION OF A NEW POLICY DIRECTIVE IN THE WAY IN WHICH WE CREATED SOME POSITIONS THAT CHANGED THE WAY THAT WE WERE HEADING.

THEY DIDN'T NECESSARILY GO AGAINST THE OVERALL OUTCOME OF WE WANT TO IMPROVE PUBLIC SAFETY AT ALL AND THERE WERE SEVERAL THINGS THAT WERE FOR AND SOME WERE AGAINST, BUT THE ISSUE OF INITIATING THOSE HAPPENED AT A STAFF LEVEL AND WAS CARRIED OUT AT A STAFF LEVEL PRIOR TO IT BEING UPDATED THROUGH THE COUNCIL.

SO JUST TO PUT A FINE POINT ON IT, IF WE STICK TO THE GOVERNANCE AND ENDS POLICIES, COUNCIL INITIATES, STAFF PROCURES.

[00:15:03]

LET ME ASK MR. HARTMAN.

HOW DO YOU SEE IT IN JUST THAT ONE TOPIC OF COUNCIL BEING ABLE TO INITIATE AND THEN YOU BEING ABLE TO PROCURE AND THEN CONSTANTLY GIVE GOOD UPDATES AND FEEDBACK.

>> I LOOK AT IT ON A SPECTRUM FROM WHERE THE CITY MANAGER HAS COMPLETE AUTHORITY TO PERFORM TO WHERE COUNCIL HAS COMPLETE AUTHORITY.

THEN YOU HAVE IT BETWEEN THERE SOMEWHERE AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ESTABLISHING WITH THE GOVERNANCE.

YOU TAKE WHERE THERE'S COMMUNICATION OR WHETHER IT'S THAT SPECIFIC TOPIC, IF YOU LOOK AT THAT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S HOW YOU EVALUATE THESE POLICIES IS RELATED TO WHERE DO YOU WANT TO LAND ON THAT SPECTRUM OF YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CITY MANAGER THAT HAS SOME AUTHORITY TO FUNCTION ON EVERY DAY MATTERS.

BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO HAVE THINGS THAT HAVE TO GO TO COUNCIL PER CHARTER, PER THE POLICY OR OTHERS.

WHERE IS THAT LINE IN BETWEEN THAT'S A COURTESY OF COMMUNICATION? ON THIS END, YOU HAVE FULL AUTHORITY, ON THIS END, YOU HAVE FULL AUTHORITY, BUT THERE'S A COURTESY IN BETWEEN SO WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DEFINE SOMETHING THAT IN THE MIDDLE IS A COURTESY COMMUNICATION NOT NECESSARILY REQUIRED ON EITHER SIDE, BUT THAT'S THE INTERACTION THAT'S APPROPRIATE TO HELP AND MAKE THE THING WORK.

WRITING A BLACK AND WHITE RULE THAT SAYS I'M COVERING THIS MIDDLE COURTESY CONVERSATION IS VERY, VERY DIFFICULT.

WHERE BLACK AND WHITE AUTHORITY OUT ON EITHER END OF THAT SPECTRUM IS MUCH EASIER TO RIDE.

THAT'S WHEN YOU GET INTO THE WORDING.

I AGREE WITH THE COUNCIL MEMBER.

IT'S THE SPECIFIC WORDS THAT LAND YOU ON THAT SPECTRUM.

SO GO BACK TO COMMUNICATION, HOW MUCH COMMUNICATION? ARE THERE THINGS THAT A CITY MANAGER SHOULD COMMUNICATE SOLELY WITH STAFF AND GET DONE? YES. ARE THERE THINGS THAT ARE REQUIRED TO BE COMMUNICATED TO THE COUNCIL? YES. YOU CAN START LOOKING THROUGH ALL OF THESE.

BUT YEAH WHAT ABOUT THAT MIDDLE PIECE AND HOW DID THESE IMPACT THAT? THAT'S WHERE THESE HAVE THE BIGGEST IMPACT, IN MY OPINION.

I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE WERE AT ON WHAT TRIGGERED THIS DISCUSSION IS WE'RE IN THAT AREA.

WHAT IS COURTESY? WHAT IS REQUIRED? AND HOW DO THESE POLICIES RELATE TO THAT? DOES THAT GIVE YOU A VISION OF HOW I LOOK AT IT OR DO I NEED TO EXPLAIN A LITTLE FURTHER?

>> NO. I UNDERSTAND THE BALANCE THERE AND I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S RELATIONAL AND IT CAN GROW FROM EXPERIENCE AND TRUST.

I THINK IT SHOULD BE A NATURAL CONSIDERATION THAT WHEN YOU HAVE NEW PARTIES IT TAKES TIME AND YOU START MAYBE WITH A LITTLE TIGHTER GRIP AND THAT LOOSENS OVER TIME. COUNCILMAN.

>> JUST BEING HONEST, I THINK WE DID A POOR JOB.

I THINK COUNCIL DID A POOR JOB OF EVEN UNDERSTANDING WHAT THIS WAS.

I KNOW WE JUMPED INTO OUR STRATEGIC MEETING AND WE WERE ALL GREEN.

WE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING SO WE PITCHED THE GOVERNANCE AND ENDS POLICIES AND WE SAID, WE'LL REVISIT THIS.

GOING THROUGH THIS, IT SAYS WE SHOULD AT LEAST LOOK AT THIS ONCE A YEAR.

I DO THINK THAT THAT IS DEFINITELY NECESSARY.

IT'S INTERESTING THOUGH, BECAUSE WHEN YOU DO HAVE A FULLY NEW COUNCIL, WE DON'T KNOW THIS STUFF, YOU JUST DON'T.

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW THIS REALLY PERTAINS IN MY OPINION.

BUT AS I LOOK THROUGH HERE, WHAT I WANT IS A CITY MANAGER THAT HAS FULL AUTHORITY.

I DON'T WANT TO RUN THIS ORGANIZATION.

NONE OF US HAVE TIME TO RUN THIS ORGANIZATION, WE JUST DON'T.

I WANT A CITY MANAGER THAT'S GOING TO RUN THIS ORGANIZATION, HAVE THE FREEDOM TO RUN IT.

BUT I THINK THAT WE'VE GOT TO PUT THOSE GUIDELINES OR THOSE PARAMETERS AND COMMUNICATE THEM CLEARLY OF WHAT WE WANT AND I JUST DON'T THINK WE DID THAT.

I DON'T THINK WE EVER EVEN VISITED IT, WE JUST ASSUMED.

I THINK I BROUGHT THAT UP ON THE DICE LAST WEEK, BUT WE ASSUMED THAT THIS COURTESY, THIS ADVICE AND CONSENT WAS JUST THERE BECAUSE IN 2.22 IT SAYS, AS LONG AS CITY MANAGER USES ANY REASONABLE INTERPRETATION OF COUNCIL'S ENDS AND EXECUTIVE LIMITATIONS POLICY, THE CITY MANAGER IS AUTHORIZED TO ESTABLISH ALL FURTHER POLICIES, MAKE ALL DECISIONS, TAKE ALL ACTIONS, ESTABLISH ALL PRACTICE, AND DEVELOP ALL ACTIVITIES.

WELL, I THINK THAT SPEAKS TO RUN THE ORGANIZATION.

JUST DO IT BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO GET IN THE WEEDS ON EVERY SINGLE DECISION.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME AS WE'RE SAYING THAT WE WANT TO

[00:20:01]

I KNOW WE CAN SAY, WELL, POLICY AND OUR PILLARS AND THAT TYPE OF DEAL, WE NEED TO FOLLOW THIS AND WE ASSUME THAT THAT'S UNDERSTOOD.

BUT WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IN ANY COMMUNICATION, IN ANY RELATIONSHIP.

WE ASSUME THE OTHER PARTY UNDERSTANDS, BUT THEY DON'T, THEY ACT BASED ON THAT, AND THEN WE'RE LEFT WITH THIS BIG MESS.

IT'S GOOD THAT WE'RE MEETING TO SAY, SO NOW WE ALL HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF EXPERIENCE UNDER OUR BELT.

WE NOW UNDERSTAND HOW THE ORGANIZATION OPERATES AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT, AND NOW I THINK THAT WE CAN SET FORTH AND SAY OKAY.

WE NEEDED TO DEFINE THIS BECAUSE THIS CLEARLY WAS NOT SET AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT TOM SAID.

I THINK IT'S WHAT LESSI SAID, AND EVERYBODY HERE IS LIKE, IT WASN'T CLEARLY DEFINED AND WE'VE JUST GOT TO CLEARLY DEFINE THAT.

BECAUSE, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU ALL, BUT I DON'T WANT TO BE IN THE DAY-TO-DAY ACTIVITIES OF THIS ORGANIZATION. I DON'T.

>> WELL, AND WE'RE NOT QUALIFIED TO BE.

YOU DON'T WANT TO RUN THE ORGANIZATION BECAUSE YOU CAN'T, AND WE NEED GOOD STAFF THAT CAN RUN IT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE NEED AND WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITIES TO DO AT THE TIME, BUT WE ALSO DON'T HAVE THE EXPERIENCE AND SO IT WOULD BE UNREASONABLE TO EXPECT AN ON THE JOB TRAINING EXPERIENCE TO BE TAKEN CARE OF PRIOR TO TAKING THE POSITION.

THIS IS NOT AN EXPERIENCE IN YOUR LIFE THAT YOU GET TO LEARN OUTSIDE OF CITY HALL AND THEN BRING YOUR EXPERIENCE INTO IT.

YOU DON'T GET TO DO THAT.

YOU HAVE TO GET ELECTED AND YOU HAVE TO GET ON BOARDED AND THEN YOU HAVE TO LEARN AS YOU GO.

IT'S NOT WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT, IT'S HOW FAST YOU CAN LEARN WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW.

THIS IS A LOT LIKE MARRIAGE COUNSELING SIX MONTHS BEFORE YOU GET MARRIED.

YOU CAN SIT DOWN WITH THAT COUNSELOR AND YOU'VE GOT NO PROBLEMS. MAN, YOU GUYS LOVE EACH OTHER AND YOU BOTH WANT TO HAVE THE SAME NUMBER OF KIDS, YOU BOTH WANT HIM TO HANDLE THE MONEY OR HER TO TAKE CARE OF THIS OR WHATEVER.

A YEAR AFTER YOU'VE BEEN MARRIED, THAT'S WHEN YOU NEED MARRIAGE COUNSELING BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN YOU GOT A LOT OF PROBLEMS. YOU'RE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S WRONG WITH HER, SHE NEEDS HELP.

SHE'S SAYING, I KNOW WHAT'S WRONG WITH HIM, AND WE NEED TO FIX HIM.

IN THIS RELATIONAL EXERCISE THAT WE'RE DOING, THIS IS A GOOD TIME TO COME BACK TO IT BUT WITH THE PERCEPTION AND PERSPECTIVE THAT WE WEREN'T GOING TO GET HERE ANY DIFFERENTLY.

NOW, I KNOW WE'VE HAD A COUPLE BUMPS IN THE ROAD THAT ARE EVIDENT OUTSIDE OF THE HOUSE, WHICH IS FINE, BUT THIS IS NORMAL.

YOU GUYS, WE COULD HAVE TAKEN THREE DAYS TO GO OVER ALL THIS.

I PROMISE YOU WHAT THE WORDS ON PAPER HERE WOULDN'T HAVE MEANT TO YOU AT THAT TIME.

THEY DIDN'T MEAN ANYTHING TO ME AT THE TIME EITHER.

I WOULD LIKE TO DIG INTO A COUPLE OF THE KEY PHRASES THAT TRULY DO AUTHORIZE AUTHORITY.

THE ONE YOU JUST READ IN MY ASSERTION IS TOO LIBERAL AND I WOULD RATHER IT BE RESTRAINED.

I'M GOOD TO TAKE THAT ONE OUT.

BEFORE WE DO THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK TO COUNCILMAN SIMPSON.

ARE WE MOVING BEYOND SOME OF THE MICK ITEMS THAT YOU WANTED TO HIT FIRST IN OPENING THIS DISCUSSION UP? BECAUSE WE CAN REIN THIS IN BEFORE WE [OVERLAPPING]

>> I'M STILL NOT SURE I KNOW IN ACTION WHAT ADVICE AND CONSENT LOOKS LIKE.

I'VE HEARD A LOT OF TALK, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF WE WERE TO PUT THAT IN ACTION. BECAUSE A COUPLE OF THINGS.

ONE THING I THINK THAT THE GOVERNANCE AND ENDS POLICY DOES POINT OUT IS THAT INDIVIDUALLY WE HAVE NO POWER ONLY AS A GROUP.

NOW, WHEN I LOOK AT WHAT MICK SAYS, HE SAYS, WELL, BASED ON HIS LIMITED RESEARCH AND HIS EXPERIENCE IN ATTENDING CITY BUSINESS ALL OVER TEXAS, I BELIEVE IT IS RARE FOR THERE TO BE A MORE FORMAL PROCESS.

BUT I DON'T SEE HOW YOU COULD GET ADVICE AND CONSENT OF THE COUNCIL, WHICH WE CAN ONLY DO AS A GROUP UNLESS IT'S IN A FORMAL PROCESS.

BECAUSE INDIVIDUALLY, WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO SAY, HERE'S WHAT WE CAN DO OR CAN'T DO.

ON TOP OF THAT, I GUESS, EVEN IF YOU TOOK A STRAW POLL, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU GONE INTO A DISCUSSION THINKING ONE THING, AND THE MAYOR BRINGS UP A POINT, JOSH BRINGS UP A POINT, YOU HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS AND YOU SAY, WOW, THAT'S CHANGED MY MIND ABOUT THAT.

AGAIN, WHEN IT SHOWS.

IN HERE, MICK SAID, I GUESS HIS EXPERIENCES WOULD BE THAT IN THIS ADVICE AND CONSENT, IT WOULD BE FOR THOSE POSITIONS THAT DIRECTLY REPORT TO THE CITY MANAGER.

BUT NOW, BACK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CHARTER, THERE PROBABLY WERE NO ASSISTANT CITY MANAGERS, DEPUTY CITY MANAGERS.

I'M GUESSING, MAYBE BRIAN COULD CORRECT ME,

[00:25:04]

I DON'T KNOW, I GUESS, I'M JUST LOOKING FOR A LITTLE BIT OF CLARITY OF MOVING FORWARD.

WHAT DOES THIS EXACTLY MEAN AS A FORMAL WAY TO GIVE ADVICE AND CONSENT? THE OTHER THING IS, ALL OF US HAVE TO KNOW THE SAME AMOUNT OF INFORMATION.

THAT'S ONE THING THAT I DON'T SEE IN THE GOVERNANCE AND ENDS POLICIES THAT SAYS FROM CITY STAFF, CITY MANAGER POINT, ALL OF US HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME INFORMATION TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEREVER WE ARE AND HOWEVER WE'RE GETTING THAT, WE'RE GETTING THE INFORMATION.

AGAIN, I'M JUST WANTING TO GET A LITTLE CLARITY ON THIS ADVICE AND CONSENT BECAUSE MAYBE THERE'S OTHER AREAS.

I DON'T KNOW, IN PRACTICE, WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> BRIAN, IS THERE A WAY TO DO THAT WITHOUT VIOLATING THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT?

>> WELL, LET ME ADDRESS THE FIRST QUESTION.

THE FIRST INQUIRY, I GUESS, THAT WAS POSED IS, IS THERE A FORMAL WAY? YEAH, THERE IS.

COUNCIL HAS COMPLETE POWER TO DECIDE WHAT THAT IS.

THAT'S THE VERY ESSENCE OF WHAT THE GOVERNANCE POLICIES ARE FOR.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE FOR.

THEY'RE TO SAY, IF YOU HAVE THESE APPOINTED OFFICES, WE WANT TO TAKE FORMAL ACTION ON THEM.

PERIOD. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

YOU WOULD STILL BE WITHIN THE LINES OF THE CHARTER, IT'S MEANT TO BE FLEXIBLE BASED UPON THE DIRECTION OF BOTH COUNCIL.

WHETHER THAT BE IN THE BLUEPRINT, WHETHER THAT BE IN THE GOVERNANCE POLICIES, THE VARIOUS STRATEGIC GOALS THAT COUNCIL SETS OUT, AND THE CITY MANAGER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO TRY TO FULFILL THOSE MISSIONS THE BEST WAY THAT THEY CAN WHILE STILL COMMUNICATING, GIVING STATUS UPDATES AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

FOR YOUR SECOND QUESTION, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT YOU REGULARLY REVISIT VARIOUS PROJECTS THAT COUNCIL HAS ON THE TABLE THAT THEY'VE TALKED ABOUT, WHETHER THOSE BE CIP THINGS, WHATEVER THEY ARE, AND YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THOSE TWO IN THE GOVERNANCE POLICY, YOU CAN LAY OUT WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE.

MAYBE THEY'RE NOT RELATED TO APPOINTED OFFICIALS.

YOU CERTAINLY CAN HAVE A PROVISION FOR THAT, BUT YOU COULD ALSO HAVE A PROVISION RELATED TO VARIOUS PROJECTS.

WHAT IS IT THAT COUNCIL WANTS? I THINK IT IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL THAT EVERY COUNCIL PERSON HAVE THE EXACT SAME INFORMATION.

THERE IS NO WAY THAT COUNCIL CAN FUNCTION ANYWAY OTHER THAN THAT.

BUT REMEMBER, A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE RELATIONSHIP THAT COUNCIL HAS WITH MANAGEMENT.

JUST LIKE YOU SAID, MAYOR, IT'S ABOUT TRUST, IT'S ABOUT TRYING TO STAY OUT OF THE WEEDS, IF YOU WILL, BUT AT THE SAME TIME TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, WHERE ARE WE ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT AND WHAT CAN COUNCIL DO TO HELP OR ASSIST? IT'S JUST A CHANNEL OF COMMUNICATION THAT COUNCIL CAN JUST BY USING THE GOVERNANCE POLICIES CHANGE AND MODIFY SO THAT THE EXPECTATIONS OF BOTH WHAT COUNCIL HAS FOR STAFF AND WHAT STAFF'S EXPECTATIONS FOR COUNCIL ARE CLEARLY DEFINED.

THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF HAVING A GOVERNANCE POLICY.

I THINK YOU HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT THE FRAMERS OF THE CHARTER HAD IN MIND.

THIS IS NOT THE 1913 AMARILLO ANYMORE, WHERE WE'VE GOT MAYBE 10, AND 12, 15 EMPLOYEES.

YOU HAVE THOUSANDS OF EMPLOYEES NOW, AND THE CITY MANAGER IS CLEARLY IN A COUNCIL MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT IN CHARGE OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE PORTIONS OF THAT.

BUT COUNCIL CAN STILL REQUEST BY GOVERNANCE POLICY WHAT ITEMS THEY WANT TO HAVE A FORMAL PROCESS FOR.

I THINK THAT'S COMPLETELY ACCEPTABLE WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF OUR CHARTER.

HOPEFULLY THAT CATCHES THOSE ITEMS.

>> I WOULD SAY TO YOUR POINT, DON I UNDERSTAND, WE HIRE A PROFESSIONAL TO THAT.

BUT THEN THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS OUR ROLE AS A MAYOR AND COUNCIL? WELL, ULTIMATELY, THE CITIZENS OWN THE GOVERNMENT, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO EVEN WHAT WE DO, SO THEY ELECT US TO BE IN THEIR PLACE.

I SEE OUR ROLE IS A CHECK AND BALANCE.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR, TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

BECAUSE GOVERNMENT CANNOT FUNCTION IF THERE'S NOT A CHECK AND BALANCE.

YOU SEE THE WAY THE STATE HOUSE AND THE US HOUSE AND THE SENATE AND THE PRESIDENT, THERE'S DIFFERENT BRANCHES, THE SUPREME COURT THAT PROVIDES A CHECK AND BALANCE WITH EACH OTHER.

HERE WHEN HIRING A PROFESSIONAL TO RUN THE CITY,

[00:30:04]

I WOULD SAY ONE OF THE MAIN AREAS THAT THIS SEEMS TO BE IN THE CHARTER, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IS FROM A FINANCIAL STANDPOINT.

AGAIN, APPROVING THINGS OR NOT APPROVING THINGS OR WHATEVER FROM THE FINANCIAL STANDPOINT, NO, WE DON'T GET INTO THE DAY TO DAY OF THE OPERATION OF THE CITY, BUT WE'RE STILL RESPONSIBLE TO THE CITIZENS FOR THE DAY TO DAY OPERATION OF THE CITY.

HOW DOES THAT WORK? TO ME, THE FINANCIAL PART OF IT IS ONE OF THE KEY PARTS TO BEING ABLE TO DO IT.

NO, WE DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE MINUTIA OF DETAIL, BUT I THINK IT IS MAKING SURE THAT WE CAN FULFILL OUR ROLE OF BEING TO MAKE SURE THERE'S CHECKS AND BALANCES IN THE GOVERNMENT TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

I THINK ONE IS KNOWING ABOUT THESE THINGS AND THEN DETERMINING HOW WE DO THAT, NOT TO INTERFERE.

THERE WAS A LOT OF TALKING ABOUT EFFICIENCY, AND EFFICIENCY OF SPENDING IS REALLY A MAJOR FUNCTION THAT WAS IN THAT GOVERNANCE AND ENDS POLICY.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE AREAS WHERE WE HAVE TO LOOK AT.

WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY, ADVICE AND CONSENT, IT DOES EXIST, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING.

WE MAY NEED TO DEFINE WHAT AND WHEN THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

>> I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU. OKAY.

>> WELL, LET'S BACK [INAUDIBLE]

>> MAYOR, CAN I JUST WEIGH IN A COUPLE OF TOPICS RIGHT THERE? COUNCIL MEMBER, I THINK YOU MADE AN EXCELLENT POINT ABOUT FINANCIAL IS ONE STANDPOINT OF THAT.

WHEN YOU'RE CONSIDERING THAT DISCUSSION, DON'T FORGET THE OTHER COMPONENTS OF IT IS, WE TALKED ABOUT THERE ARE PARAMETERS WITHIN, IS IT DIRECT REPORTS TO THE CITY MANAGER OR IS IT SOMETHING ELSE? THAT'S ANOTHER VIEW OF THAT.

BUT YOU LOOK AT THE SPECTRUM OF FINANCIAL, BUT LOOK AT THE VIEW OF WHO REPORTS TO WHO.

BUT ALSO WITHIN THAT POLICY, DON'T FORGET THAT YOU HAVE PERSONALITY ISSUES, YOU HAVE RAISES, YOU HAVE ALL THE OTHER COMPONENTS OF THAT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE CITY MANAGER AND THE SUBORDINATES.

IF YOU WRITE IT STRICTLY ON THE FINANCIAL SIDE, IT MIGHT OMIT SOME OF THAT.

IF YOU WRITE IT STRICTLY ON THAT, YOU MIGHT BE IN A POSITION THAT'S NEGATIVE RELATED, YOU'RE IN THE WEEDS AND YOU'RE SOMEWHERE WHERE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE.

JUST A CAUTION OF ADVICE OF WHEN YOU HAVE THAT DISCUSSION, DON'T JUST STICK ON A FINANCIAL COMPONENT WHEN THERE'S THESE OTHER COMPONENTS THAT, THAT RULE IS APPLYING TO.

LET'S TALK THROUGH ALL OF THOSE BEFORE WE FINALIZE SOMETHING THAT SAYS, YES, YOU'RE ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THIS LEVEL IN THE ORGANIZATION OR YOU'RE UP AT THIS LEVEL.

>> COUNCIL MACKEY.

>> IT'S A QUESTION FOR BRIAN.

WHEN WE START GOING AND START DEFINING SOME OF THESE DIFFERENT TERMS, I WAS READING SOME OF THE MIXED STUFF, LIKE EMPLOYEES, WHILE HIS OPINION IS IT'S NOT INTENDED TO INCLUDE ALL EMPLOYEES, BUT ONLY THOSE POSITIONS APPOINTED DIRECTLY BY THE CITY MANAGER OR ADVISE AND CONSENT.

IN ORDER TO STRICTLY DEFINE THOSE, CAN WE DO THAT WITHIN THE POLICY OR DO WE HAVE TO REDEFINE THOSE THROUGH A CHARTER ELECTION?

>> WELL, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THE POLICY CAN CARRY YOU, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOUR MISSION IS.

YOU HAVE TO DEFINE WHAT THAT MISSION IS.

IF THE GOAL IS JUST TO FORMALIZE A PROCESS BY WHICH YOU ARE GOING TO GIVE ADVICE AND CONSENT RELATED TO A FEW APPOINTED OFFICES, NO.

THERE'S NO REASON TO GO BACK AND CHANGE THE CHARTER FOR THAT IN MY OPINION, IF YOU ARE GOING TO START APPROVING EVERY EMPLOYEE.

BECAUSE THAT'S NOT A COUNCIL MANAGER FOR THE GOVERNMENT.

IN MY OPINION, THAT WOULD REQUIRE A CHARTER.

>> BASICALLY TO PUT IN BLACK AND WHITE, TO PUT A DEFINITION TO ADVISE AND CONSENT AS IT PERTAINS TO THE CHARTER, DO WE HAVE TO DO A CHARTER ELECTION TO ADD THAT?

>> TO ADD TO WHAT?

>> TO DEFINE ADVISE AND CONSENT FOR WHAT WE DECIDE?

>> NO, YOU DO NOT.

THE GOVERNANCE POLICY IS THE TOOL THAT ALLOWS YOU TO FRAME WHAT ADVICE AND CONSENT IS IN YOUR MIND.

BECAUSE ANOTHER COUNCIL MAY COME ALONG AND THEY MAY CHANGE THEIR MIND.

BECAUSE REMEMBER IT'S ABOUT A CHANNEL OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE COUNCIL AND MANAGEMENT. THAT'S ALL IT IS.

IN ITS MOST SIMPLISTIC TERM, THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

YOU'RE TELLING THE MANAGER OR MANAGEMENT IN GENERAL, HERE'S WHAT WE EXPECT FROM YOU RELATED TO THESE THINGS, WHETHER THERE BE APPOINTMENTS OR THESE SPECIFIC PROJECTS, WHATEVER THEY ARE, YOU GET TO DEFINE THEM.

YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO HAVE A CHARTER ELECTION FOR THAT.

BECAUSE COUNCIL'S OBJECTIVES MAY CHANGE OVER A PERIOD OF TIME.

REMEMBER, MEROLA IS JUST GOING TO KEEP GROWING, AND OUR ORGANIZATION IS GOING TO GET LARGER AND LARGER.

[00:35:02]

I THINK COUNCIL NEEDS TO CAST A VISION CERTAINLY FOR THE TERM YOU'RE IN.

YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE THAT ESTABLISHED.

BUT YOU ALSO WANT TO BE THINKING ABOUT GOING FORWARD AND BEING STRATEGIC IN HOW YOU'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY MANAGEMENT OPERATES WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF THAT RELATIONSHIP WITH COUNCIL.

BOTH OF YOU MUST SUCCEED FOR THE CITY TO SUCCEED, SO THAT CHANNEL OF COMMUNICATION MUST BE LAID OUT AS CLEARLY AS YOU CAN.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU WON'T HAVE BUMPS, BUT JUST LIKE WHEN THE FIRST TIME YOU ATTEND A CLASS, YOUR PROFESSOR HANDS OUT A SYLLABUS, WHAT DOES IT HAVE IN IT? IT HAS THE GRADING MATRIX, HOW YOUR GRADE IS GOING TO BE DETERMINED, AND IT GIVES YOU THE EXPECTATIONS AS A STUDENT, WHAT I NEED TO BE DOING IN THIS CLASS.

YOU ALSO GET THE EXPECTATIONS OF WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT FROM THE PROFESSOR OR THE TEACHER.

IT'S THE SAME TYPE OF COMMUNICATION HERE.

IT BEHOOVES YOU TO STUDY THE GOVERNANCE POLICIES AND THEN TO CHANGE THEM IN THE WAY THAT YOU WANT THEM TO BE SO THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY ACHIEVE THAT.

I DON'T KNOW, THAT'S THE BEST I CAN DO WITH IT.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT A CHARTER ELECTION IS REQUIRED JUST TO ESTABLISH THAT.

>> TWO THINGS I WOULD ADD TO THIS TOO, AND TO YOUR POINT ABOUT COMMUNICATION.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE CHARTER, THERE'S TWO AREAS THAT ADDRESS THIS.

IT SAYS, THE MANAGER SHALL RECOMMEND IN WRITING, TO COUNCIL, SUCH MEASURES AS THE MANAGER MAY DEEM NECESSARY OR EXPEDIENT.

WHEN I LOOK AT THE FOUNDING FATHERS, IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY NEEDED, WE'RE TO BECOME AWARE OF IT.

NOW AGAIN, COUNCILS AS A MANAGER MAY NEED DESS AREA EXPEDIENT, MAYBE WE NEED TO CLARIFY THAT A LITTLE BIT, BUT TO ME, THIS COMMUNICATION PART OF BEING ABLE FOR COUNCIL TO BE AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON IS CODIFIED IN THE CHARTER AS IS SECTION 21F THAT SAYS THAT KEEP THE COUNCIL FULLY ADVISED AS TO THE FINANCIAL CONDITION AND NEEDS OF THE CITY.

THE GOAL HERE WAS TO KEEP COUNCIL ADVISED TO THE FINANCIAL CONDITIONS AS WELL AS THE NEEDS OF THE CITY. I AGREE WITH YOU.

I SEE THAT THE CITY CHARTER IS BACKING UP.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH MAYBE WE NEED TO GIVE SOME MORE DEFINITION ABOUT COMMUNICATION IN THE GOVERNANCE AND ENDS POLICIES ON WHAT A COUNCIL SHOULD EXPECT THE INFORMATION THAT SHOULD BE COMMUNICATED TO THEM.

BECAUSE I THINK IT TO ME, IT'S CLEAR IN THE CHARTER THAT THIS COMMUNICATION, AS YOU SAY, WAS MEANT TO OCCUR AND JUST LIKE THE ADVICE AND CONSENT, BUT HOW DOES THAT ROLL OUT IN THE SPECIFICS OF HOW WE FUNCTION DAY IN AND DAY OUT?

>> IF WE LOOK AT IN GOVERNANCE AND PROCESS 136, IF WE GO THERE, IT SAYS MONITOR AND DISCUSS THE COUNCIL PROCESS AND MISSIONS ACHIEVEMENT PERIODICALLY.

SELF MONITORING SHALL INCLUDE COMPARISONS, A COUNCIL'S ACTIVITIES AND DISCIPLINE TO POLICIES IN THE ENDS GOVERNANCE PROCESS, AND COUNCIL STAFF LINKAGE CATEGORY.

WHAT I PUT THERE IS A NOTE.

I THINK WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TODAY NEEDS TO BE DONE ON A QUARTERLY BASIS.

IF WE DID THIS QUARTERLY, IT'S NOT GOING TO TAKE THAT LONG.

THIS WAY, WE HAVE GOOD COMMUNICATION WITH STAFF, OURSELVES.

WE ALL COMMUNICATE RIGHT HERE TOGETHER, WHERE WE'RE AT.

IF WE DON'T TAKE THE TIME, THE KEY WORDS HERE, MONITOR AND DISCUSS.

WHAT WE DO, WE'VE BEEN BASICALLY COMING IN AND TAKE CARE OF OUR COUNCIL MEETINGS, WE HAVE A SHORT EXECUTIVE SESSION, BUT WE REALLY DON'T GET INTO THE MEAT OF THE GOVERNANCE OF IT.

I THINK THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT FACTOR HERE IS LOOKING AT THE GOVERNANCE, SO THAT'S WHERE WE LAY OUT THE DEFINITION TO OUR CITY MANAGER.

HERE'S YOUR CURVES.

I WANT TO KNOW ANYBODY THAT YOU'RE HIRING ON THE THIRD FLOOR OR I WANT TO KNOW ANYBODY YOU'RE HIRING FROM DIRECTOR UP.

THAT'S HOW WE PUT THE DEFINITION IN THERE THAT THE CITY MANAGER KNOW.

THE PROBLEM IS WE HAVEN'T PUT THAT LIMITATION, WE ASSUMED THE LIMITATION WAS THERE.

WE, AS A COUNCIL, NEED TO SIT AROUND AND FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THAT LIMITATION? WE ALL MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT IDEA WHAT THAT LIMITATION IS.

IT'S LIKE IN THIS DOCUMENT DOWN HERE SOMEWHERE ELSE, IT SAYS A REASONABLE,

[00:40:03]

WE CAN'T HAVE A REASONABLE AS WHAT'S REASONABLE TO ME THAT MAY NOT BE REASONABLE TO CODE.

OR WHAT'S REASONABLE TO ME MAY NOT BE REASONABLE TO FLOYD.

BUT WE NEED THE DEFINITION AND ACTUALLY DESCRIBE THAT BOUNDARY.

ONCE WE HAVE A DESCRIPTION, WE DON'T HAVE ANY MORE PROBLEMS OR WE SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY MORE PROBLEMS. IT'S WHEN WE ASSUME THAT THERE'S A CURVE OUT HERE AND WE DRIVE ACROSS THE PASTURE.

THAT'S JUST MY THOUGHT.

>> WE'RE GETTING THERE.

ADVICE AND CONSENT DOES EXIST, WHICH IS GOOD.

WE'VE ESTABLISHED THIS. WE NEED TO FURTHER DEFINE IT.

I'D LIKE TO TAKE SOME IDEAS FROM COUNCIL ON HOW YOU SEE IT AND COMPARE THAT WITH MAYBE SOME TROUBLESHOOTING FROM STAFF IN LIKE, WELL, MAYOR, THAT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM BECAUSE THIS DOESN'T WORK.

LET ME PUT FORTH MORE OF A FLOW CHART AND PAINT A PICTURE IN YOUR HEAD ON HOW WE MAKE IT APPROACH THIS.

I DO LOOK AT THIS A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THE SIDE OF MAYBE SPAN OF CONTROL.

IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN ORGANIZATION AND YOU HAVE YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND THEN BELOW THEM, THEY HAVE A DIRECT SPAN OF CONTROL, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A LEGITIMATE DEFINITION OF THAT.

HERE'S THE WAY THIS WORKS.

MAYOR AND COUNCIL ARE THE BODY, AND THEY HAVE ONE PERSON BELOW THEM, CITY MANAGER.

CITY MANAGER WILL ACT AS A CONDUIT FOR ALL THINGS. IMPOSSIBLE JOB.

I MEAN IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU TO ACT AS A CONDUIT, AND THEN, "HEY MR. HARTMAN, I'D LIKE TO SPEAK WITH THE CHIEF," AND EVERYTHING HAS TO GO ON OR, "HEY MR. HARTMAN, THE CHIEF SAID SOMETHING TO ME AND I'D LIKE TO RESPOND TO HIM.

WOULD YOU MIND COMMUNICATING ON MY BEHALF?" IT DOESN'T FUNCTION.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO IS TO IDENTIFY WHAT IS OUR SPAN OF CONTROL AND HOW DOES THAT REALLY FLESH OUT IN THE DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS.

WHERE ARE YOU COMFORTABLE AS A CITY MANAGER AND WHERE SHOULD A CITY MANAGER BE COMFORTABLE? THE PROCESS OF COMMUNICATION DOWN AND COMING BACK UP THROUGH VERIFICATION.

BECAUSE I KNOW I WANT TO GET TO THAT VERIFICATION AND ACCOUNTABILITY PART.

>> I THINK WHAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED RECENTLY IS DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO THAT, AND YOU'VE SEEN THE DIFFERENT OUTCOMES.

THERE'S CHALLENGES RELATED TO THAT.

IT'S ESSENTIAL BECAUSE THE CITY MANAGER ULTIMATELY POSITION IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL AS YOU JUST STATED.

IT'S ESSENTIAL THAT THAT COMMUNICATION INCLUDES OR GOES THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER AGAIN ON A SPECTRUM.

IF IT'S A POTHOLE AND IT GETS SOLVED, IT'S OKAY THAT THAT GOES TO A DIRECTOR LEVEL, WITH THE CITY MANAGER AWARENESS LEVEL.

BUT WHEN YOU PUT THAT OUT THERE, DO FIVE PEOPLE SEE THAT THE SAME WAY? IN OTHER WORDS, THIS SHIFTS FROM Y'ALL ARE ONE VOICE TO Y'ALL ARE FIVE DIFFERENT VIEWS OF THAT.

DOES THAT HELP UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CHALLENGE IS RELATED TO THAT?

>> IT DOES, AND IT'S A HUGE CHALLENGE BECAUSE AT THE HEART OF IT, YOU HAVE FIVE BOSSES.

YOU HAVE FIVE INDIVIDUAL RELATIONSHIPS, AND YOU HAVE TO USE JUDGMENT ON ALL FIVE DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

IT WOULD BE NICE FOR US TO SAY COUNCIL AS A BODY SPEAKS.

WELL, WE DON'T.

NOW, WE CAN FORMALIZE A STATEMENT TOGETHER WITH THE FORMAL VOTE, BUT COUNCIL AS A BODY SPEAKS INDIVIDUALLY BECAUSE OF THE WAY WE'RE ELECTED.

WE WEREN'T ELECTED AS A TEAM.

WE WERE ELECTED AS FIVE INDIVIDUAL REPRESENTATIVES, AND WE ALL HAVE FIVE DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS.

I DON'T QUIET ANYONE DOWN AND I DON'T EXPECT TO BE QUIETED.

I JUST WANT TO GET TO THE PRACTICALITY OF THE DIFFICULTY OF YOUR JOB.

TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER ON THE JUDGMENT THAT YOU HAVE TO WORK THROUGH WITH FIVE DIFFERENT BOSSES.

>> WELL, WHEN YOU HAVE THAT COMMUNICATION, SO WHEN YOU TRY TO WRITE A RULE, REMEMBER MOST OF THEM GET BLACK AND WHITE, STEP 1, 2, 3, 4.

AGAIN ON THAT SPECTRUM, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THEIR FOLD NEED TO GO THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER VERSUS MAYBE SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T, SO YOU GET ON THAT SPECTRUM.

BUT IF YOU'RE OUTSIDE OF THAT AND YOU WRITE A RULE, IT'S BLACK AND WHITE AND IT'S A CHECKLIST.

THAT DOESN'T WORK WELL.

WHAT THERE HAS TO BE IS SOME JUDGMENT AND DISCERNMENT ON THE CITY MANAGER THAT ALLOWS FOR CERTAIN COMMUNICATIONS.

YOU TAKE THE TOPICS THAT ARE ON THE FORUM, IT WOULD BE UNDERMINING A CITY MANAGER TO BE GOING TO STAFF OUTSIDE OF THAT.

[00:45:01]

OTHERWISE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A MISSING TEAM MEMBER.

HE'S NOT EVEN ON THE SAME PAGE, NOT EVEN ON THE SAME FIELD AS A COUNCIL MEMBER OR THE GROUP OF COUNCIL MEMBERS.

BUT SEE THE POLICY IS MORE OF YOUR VOICE AS ONE INSTEAD OF EACH OF YOU HAVING A VOICE.

BUT YET ON A POTHOLE, THEN YOU WANT A SIMPLE SOLUTION, OPERATIONAL COMPONENT.

YOU HAVE THESE DIFFERENCES OF COMMUNICATIONS.

WHERE I'M AT IS I THINK THIS COUNCIL PREFERS SOME FLEXIBILITY ON THOSE DAY-TO-DAY CHALLENGES THAT JUST COME TO YOU THAT NEED A SOLUTION, AND WE HAVE SUCH A TALENTED STAFF THAT THEY CAN SOLVE IT VERY QUICKLY.

I'VE GOT A WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE ON SATURDAY OF THAT EXACT SCENARIO.

I THINK THAT'S A POSITIVE.

[NOISE] IF YOU WRITE YOUR STANDARD, THIS POLICY WE'RE TALKING TODAY, WHEN YOU GET INTO THE POLICY DISCUSSION, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A MISCOMMUNICATION AND A MISUNDERSTANDING.

IT'S ABOUT SOME JUDGMENT.

THE CITY MANAGER AND THE COUNCIL HAVE TO JUDGE THAT AND GET TO A POINT WHERE THEY AGREE.

AGAIN, WRITING A RULE THAT'S BLACK AND WHITE, WHERE SOMEBODY IS OUT OF BOUNDS IS GOING TO BE IN THAT MIDDLE AREA.

WHERE DOES THAT TRANSITION BACK TO WHERE IT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER? WHERE DOES IT TRANSITION THAT IT'S JUST A NORMAL DAY COMMUNICATION THAT WE KNOW WE CAN GET THE ANSWER? A DUMPSTER LID FIXED, A POTHOLE, OR THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.

DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION OR DO I NEED TO BE MORE CLEAR?

>> I THINK YOU ARE GETTING THERE.

I WANT TO LOOK AT IT IN TWO FORMS BECAUSE I THINK YOU CAN BREAK THINGS OUT IN POLICY VERSUS OPERATIONS.

I THINK IT HELPS US TO DEFINE IT RIGHTLY.

IF WE SAY COUNCIL IS NOT IN OPERATIONS, THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE DON'T CARE HOW THE CITY FUNCTIONS OR IF SERVICES GET COMPLETED.

WE OBVIOUSLY CARE.

BUT IN THE DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS OF RUNNING THE CITY AS A BUSINESS, NONE OF US WANT TO BE IN THOSE OPERATIONS.

THE SPAN OF CONTROL WOULD CEASE AT THAT OPERATIONAL LEVEL.

WHERE DOES THAT EXIST IN OUR ORGANIZATION? WHO IMPLEMENTS THOSE OPERATIONS? BECAUSE YOU HAVE CITY MANAGER, THEN YOU HAVE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGERS, THEN BELOW THAT YOU HAVE DIRECTORS.

AT THE DIRECTOR LEVEL, IS THAT WHERE THE OPERATIONS BEGIN?

>> YOU HAVE YOUR PRIMARY INTERACTION WITH OPERATIONS AT THE DIRECTOR LEVEL IN ALL OF OUR ORGANIZATION OR THE CHIEF LEVEL IN THE PUBLIC SAFETY REALM.

THAT IS YOUR MANAGERS OF YOUR DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS.

NOW HERE'S A CHALLENGE ALSO ON THAT SPECTRUM.

IMAGINE THAT EMPLOYEE THAT'S TWO LAYERS, THREE LAYERS BELOW THE CITY MANAGER AND THEY GET A CALL FROM THE MAYOR AND THEIR FEAR IS WHAT DO I DO? SO YOU CREATE ANXIETY.

>> WELL, I AGREE.

>> EVEN ON A SIMPLE PIECE OF INFORMATION THAT CREATES ANXIETY OR DECISION THAT NOW INSTEAD OF ONE OR THREE PEOPLE MAKING THAT DECISION, YOU HAVE 15 PEOPLE IN THE ORGANIZATION SUBJECT TO MAKING THAT JUDGMENT ON A WHIM.

THEIR FEAR IS THEY'LL MAKE ONE THAT THE REST OF THE COUNCIL OR THE CITY MANAGER DOESN'T LIKE.

THAT'S THE NEGATIVE FROM THE EMPLOYEE SIDE IS THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO BECAUSE IF THEY ANSWER AND SOMEBODY DOESN'T LIKE IT, THAT'S THE CITY MANAGER'S JOB TO MANAGE THAT RELATIONSHIP, NOT THEIRS.

>> IF I JUST TAKE THE PREVIOUS EVENTS THAT WE'VE COME THROUGH THAT WE'RE LEARNING FROM AND WE JUST SAY, LOOK, THE SPAN OF CONTROL COULD BE DEFINED VERY SPECIFICALLY THAT COUNCIL WOULD DIRECT THAT THE CITY MANAGER BE THE MAIN CONDUIT, BUT THAT ALL ACMS BELOW CITY MANAGER BE ACCOUNTABLE TO COUNCIL INDIVIDUALLY AND THAT IS HOW IT FUNCTIONS.

LAURA REACHES OUT. ANDREW REACHES OUT.

IF YOU HAVE COMMUNICATION FROM THAT CORE TEAM, WHICH IS THE THIRD FLOOR, BUT YOU STOP COMMUNICATION DOWN BELOW THAT WHERE THE CHIEF NEEDS TO GO THROUGH ANDREW THAT THEN COMMUNICATES I HAVE A DIRECT SPAN OF CONTROL TO ANDREW.

IF HE'S DOING HIS JOB, THEN THE CHIEF DOESN'T SPEAK OUT OF TURN TO ME.

I'M NOT CONTACTING THE CHIEF SPECIFICALLY ON AN ISSUE.

NOW, IF WE WERE TRYING TO REACH DOWN BELOW THAT LEVEL, I THINK YOUR COMFORT IS THAT IF I WERE TO EMAIL THE GROUP, YOU, ANDREW, AND THE CHIEF, ON AN ISSUE THAT NEEDED ATTENTION RIGHT THEN, WE ALL COMMUNICATED TOGETHER, MAYBE THAT WAS MORE EFFICIENT, BUT THAT'S NOT GOING OUTSIDE OF THAT SPAN OF CONTROL THAT'S GOING THROUGH IT.

>> YEAH, I AGREE.

EXCEPT FOR THERE CAN BE A TOPIC THAT SHOULD SOLELY GO THROUGH ME AND ANDREW.

ON ONE END OF THAT SPECTRUM, THERE CAN BE AN ISSUE.

LET'S JUST SAY IT'S A PERSONNEL ISSUE WITH A DIRECTOR THAT HAS TO GO THROUGH.

[00:50:03]

>> I THINK THAT'S A GOOD POINT IF WE ARE TRYING TO DEFINE THIS MORE NARROWLY.

WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS.

>> YES.

>> IT'S PICKING UP TRASH, TAKING CARE OF AN ISSUE, A CUSTOMER, A CITIZEN DOESN'T HAVE WATER, CAN'T GET THEIR WATER METER, WHATEVER.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT I THINK IF WE SAID THEY GO THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER AND THEN IT'S OKAY TO REACH BELOW THE CITY MANAGER ON THOSE ACMS FOR EFFICIENCY.

>> ON THE OPERATIONAL LEVEL.

>> WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PERSONNEL ISSUES OR POLICY ISSUES, I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE COULD DEFINE IT BACK TO OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU.

IN THE WAY IN WHICH I'M NOT EXPECTING LAURA TO GO OUT AND IMPLEMENT A POLICY THAT I'M RESEARCHING, I WOULD EXPECT YOU TO BE ABLE TO USE YOUR JUDGMENT AND SAY, WELL, I NEED TO GET WITH COUNCIL ON THAT.

THAT CHANGES A STRATEGIC VISION OR THAT'S DIFFERENT OR WHATEVER.

NOW, IF WE SEPARATE THOSE TWO, DO YOU THINK THAT CAN BE DEFINED SOMEWHAT HERE IN THIS DOCUMENT BETTER OR MORE CLEARLY?

>> WELL, I THINK THE ANSWER TO THAT IS YOU ALL ANSWER THAT.

I DON'T ANSWER FOR YOU TO TELL YOU WHAT YOU CAN CLARIFY.

I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE FOR Y'ALL TO CLARIFY THAT IN THIS DOCUMENT.

NOW, HOW DO YOU DO THAT? THAT, AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR YOU AND ANSWER FOR YOU, BUT THE ANSWER IS YES.

ALL OF THIS CAN BE MORE CLARIFIED IN UNDERSTANDING.

FIRST OFF, I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM IF I'M IN A MEETING OR ANDREWS IN A MEETING AND IT'S MY TOPIC, LAURA, THE TEAM, INCLUDING A MANAGER AND DIRECTOR OF DONNIE, BUT RICH, THIS WHOLE TEAM IS AVAILABLE AND THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF HAVING THE TEAM THAT YOU CAN GET THINGS GOING IN A REASONABLE MANNER.

AGAIN, WHEN YOU GO BELOW THAT, IT CAN BE SCARY FOR AN EMPLOYEE.

>> DO WE HAVE ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO WEIGH IN ON THIS THAT YOU HAVE ANY DESIRE TO GO BELOW THAT TO BE ABLE TO HOLD ACCOUNTABLE, TO GET VERIFICATION, TO GET COMMUNICATION THROUGH CITY MANAGER AND ASSISTANT CITY MANAGERS DIRECTLY BELOW THEM THAT YOUR SPAN OF CONTROL WOULD STOP RIGHT THERE? THE DIRECTORS BELOW THEM ARE UNDERNEATH CITY MANAGER, MEANING YOU WOULD HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE CITY MANAGER, NOT WITH THAT DIRECTOR THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO WORK THROUGH.

I'M TALKING PERSONNEL AND POLICY SEPARATE FROM OPERATIONS.

>> WHO SEES THAT DIFFERENTLY?

>> WHAT I THINK WOULD PROBABLY WORK VERY WELL IS, IF I WAS TO VISIT, LET'S SAY FOR INSTANCE, LAURA AND HER AND I ARE DISCUSSING AN ISSUE AND WE COME TO A CONCLUSION, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE.

I WOULD THINK THAT ME AND LAURA COULD GO TO THE CITY MANAGER TO BRING THAT FORTH, WHATEVER WE NEED.

I'M NOT SAYING. WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A CHANGE, BUT IT GOES THE CITY MANAGER TO BRING BEFORE THE COUNCIL THAT WAY WE STAY OUT OF TROUBLE WITH OPEN MEETINGS RULES.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I'M ABLE TO COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY WITH AN ACM THAT'S IN CHARGE OF A PARTICULAR AREA.

THEN LET'S SAY ME AND LAURA ARE IN DISAGREEMENT ON THIS ISSUE, I CAN AT THAT POINT, GO TO MY CITY MANAGER MYSELF AND GIVE MY SIDE OF THE CASE, AND THEN LET LAURA COME IN AND GIVE HER SIDE OF THE CASE.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD WAY TO LOOK AT THIS.

THAT WAY WE ARE ACTUALLY MONITORING WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO AND I ACTUALLY CAN'T TELL LAURA WHAT TO DO.

BUT WE ARE GOING TO FLOYD AND THEN FLOYD MAKES A DETERMINATION WHETHER WE NEED TO GO TO COUNCIL WITH THAT OR WE CAN GO AHEAD AND HANDLE THAT.

THAT'S WHERE I THINK WE PUT THAT DEFINITION IN PLACE.

>> I I LIKE THE DIRECTION WE'RE GOING.

LET ME LET ME TAKE IT TO ANOTHER VISUAL.

WE HAVE OPERATIONS OVER HERE AND THEY'RE UP AND DOWN AND WE HAVE POLICIES AND PROJECTS OVER HERE.

THEY NEED TO BE LEFT AND RIGHT.

LIKE FOR ME, THIS IS THE WAY I'D LIKE TO BE TREATED.

I THINK IF I TREAT YOU GUYS THIS WAY, I'LL STAY OUT OF THE WEEDS, MEANING POLICIES AND PROJECTS ARE LEFT TO RIGHT.

I GOT THIS PROJECT IN MY HEAD.

I THINK THIS WILL WORK ON BULK TRASH OR WHATEVER.

I CAN GO AND I CAN FORMULATE THIS AND I CAN COMMUNICATE.

[00:55:02]

HEY, CAN WE GET THIS FORMALIZED? THAT CAN BE DONE ON MESSAGE FORUM AND THAT CAN BE DONE IN OTHERS.

NOW THE INTERESTING THING IS BETWEEN ALL THIS IS THAT CENTER NUCLEUS OF OUR CITY MANAGER WHO IS HELPING US TO REGULATE THE UP DOWN STUFF FROM THE LEFT TO RIGHT.

I THINK IF WE CAN BIFURCATE THIS TO POLICIES AND PROJECTS.

YOU HAVE A PROJECT IN YOUR HEAD THAT YOU WANT TO BRING FORWARD AND IT'S GOING TO COST US A HALF, $1, MILLION A YEAR AND YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO CREATE NEW POSITIONS.

I WOULD NEVER EXPECT YOU TO DO THIS WITHOUT LEFT TO RIGHT.

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT? DO YOU NOT CARE WHAT I THINK? STAFF WOULDN'T GO LEFT TO RIGHT.

THEY'RE GOING UP AND DOWN WHERE STAFF STEPS OUT AND NOW THEY'VE GOT AN IDEA.

THEY'VE GOT A VISION.

THEY'RE CREATING MANAGEMENT AND NEW FULL TIME POSITIONS.

WELL, THAT OBVIOUSLY WOULD END UP BACK AT COUNCIL BECAUSE COUNCIL DOESN'T MOVE LEFT TO RIGHT WITHOUT COUNCIL.

BUT THE UP DOWN PART COULD BE LIMITED AND I WOULD HAVE GREAT COMFORT IN KNOWING THAT WE HAVE ALL OF THE LEFT TO RIGHT DEFINED AND THAT THE UP DOWN IS GOING TO STOP WHERE JUST BELOW MY SPAN OF CONTROL WOULD STOP AT THE ACM.

>> YES, THERE'S ABILITY TO HAVE A POSITIVE IMPACT WITHIN THESE PROJECTS AND POLICIES CAN GENERATE FROM STAFF UP TO COUNCIL.

FROM OUR EXPERIENCE WITH OUR PUBLIC AND WHAT WE ARE DEALING, THE BEST EXAMPLE I WOULD HAVE OF THAT IS A WATER RIGHTS TRANSACTION.

THAT'S A PROJECT AND THAT WOULD GENERATE FROM STAFF BACK UP.

IT DOESN'T ALWAYS GENERATE FROM COUNCIL DOWN.

YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THOSE OPTIONS RELATED TO THAT POLICY.

BUT THE VISION THAT YOU PUT OUT THERE I THINK IS A WORKABLE ONE.

BUT REMEMBER, ALL AWARENESS, JUST LIKE IF I'M COMMUNICATING TO ONLY ONE OF YOU AND WE DON'T HAVE YOU INFORMED ON THOSE.

THAT'S WHY EXECUTIVE SESSION EXISTS FOR THE WATER RIGHTS TYPE THING.

THERE ARE APPROPRIATE COMPONENTS OF UPDATE AND THEN WE HAVE THOSE LAWS THAT WE HAVE TO ABIDE BY.

ALL OF THAT IMPACTS THAT POLICY IS WHAT I'M TELLING YOU.

IT'S NICE TO SAY IT WORKS THIS AWAY ALL THE TIME, BUT ALWAYS BE A FLYING OINTMENT.

>> I LOVE WHERE YOU'RE GOING.

AND THAT'S MY THIRD PHASE HERE, WHICH IS VERIFICATION, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS ACCOUNTABILITY.

AT THE POINT WHERE WE'RE NOT VERIFYING THINGS AND WE'RE NOT BEING ACCOUNTABLE.

NOW WE SEE, OKAY, THIS GOT CREATED AT STAFF LEVEL.

IT NEVER CAME BACK UP TO COUNCIL TO GO LEFT AND RIGHT, AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE OUR PROBLEM.

WHEN WE REACH DOWN TO VERIFY SOMETHING, THEN WE CAN'T GET THAT VERIFICATION SO WE CAN TELL OKAY, IT SHOULD HAVE COME TO COUNCIL IN THE WAY OF USING GOOD JUDGMENT, IF I WANTED TO CALL YOU AND SAY, HEY, THERE'S A WATER, RIGHT DEAL OUT HERE THAT I'M WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES.

I GOT HALF THE STATE OF TEXAS ON BOARD WITH THIS, AND ME AND YOU ARE GOING TO GO DO THIS THING.

WE'RE GOING TO BRING IT UP TO COUNCIL ONE DAY IN EXEC LIKE I'M WAY OUTSIDE OF MY BOUNDS IN MY LEFT TO RIGHT BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THAT AS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED AT A HIGH LEVEL, STAFF SHOULDN'T BE DOING THE SAME.

IT'S THE FIRST TIME ANY OF US IN EXECUTIVE EVER HEARD ABOUT A STATEWIDE THING THAT Y'ALL HAVE BEEN WORKING ON FOR YEARS OR MONTHS OR WHATEVER.

IT'S JUST A HEALTHY, GOOD OLD FASHIONED HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP.

YOU GOT THREE THINGS.

YOU KNOW YOUR ROLES, YOU HAVE GOOD COMMUNICATION BACK AND FORTH, AND YOU HAVE VERIFICATION.

THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT I THINK WE'RE MISSING IN THESE GOVERNANCE AND ENDS POLICIES IS WE'VE FUNNELED EVERYTHING THROUGH THIS VERY LIMITED CONDUIT THAT GOES ONE DIRECTION IN THE BLACK AND WHITE OF ALL THIS.

THERE'S NOT A SPECIFIC DEFINITION OF HOW THINGS COME BACK UP FOR VERIFICATION.

IF WE COULD HIT THAT, I THINK IT WOULD GIVE COUNCIL GREATER CLARITY AND UNDERSTANDING.

THE MORE COMFORT WE HAVE, THE MORE CLARITY WE HAVE, THE EASIER Y'ALL'S JOBS ARE TO PERFORM.

>> I THROW THAT OUT THERE.

I DON'T KNOW, ARE WE GETTING ANYWHERE?

>> WELL, I MAY SEE IT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SPAN OF CONTROL USING THAT WORD.

I DON'T REALLY SEE OUR SPAN OF CONTROL GOING BELOW THE CITY MANAGER.

[01:00:01]

YOU JUST MENTIONED JUDGMENT HERE, A LOT OF THINGS.

I THINK THAT IS THE PART OF THE EQUATION THAT YOU CANNOT PUT THAT ON PAPER IN WRITING.

BUT IF I THINK ABOUT HOW A BUSINESS ORGANIZATION WOULD BE SET UP, IF I'M RUNNING AN ORGANIZATION AND I HAVE A BOSS, MY BOSS NEEDS TO WORK THROUGH ME OUT OF RESPECT TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

NOT THAT WE COULDN'T HAVE CONVERSATIONS, BUT MY APPROACH HAS BEEN, I HAVE TRIED NOT TO LEAVE THE CITY MANAGER OUT ON ANYTHING.

I'M GOING TO APPROACH IT. EVEN IF I'M GOING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION OR CONVERSATION, OR EVEN IF THERE'S SOMETHING COME UP.

BECAUSE I THINK THAT THAT'S OUT OF MAKING SURE THAT THE CITY MANAGER KNOWS WHAT'S GOING ON.

YOU MAY OR MAY NOT BE AWARE OF SOMETHING THAT'S GOING ON, BUT I SEE THE CITY MANAGER AS THAT CONDUIT.

FOR ME, PERSONALLY, I COULDN'T IMAGINE MYSELF GOING TO AN ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, INITIATING A CONVERSATION ABOUT SOMETHING WITHOUT FIRST RUNNING IT BY THE CITY MANAGER TO MAKE SURE.

JUST TO LET YOU KNOW WHAT I'M DOING, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF OUR AUTHORITY, NOT THAT WE CAN HAVE A WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BEGIN AND END WITH THE CITY MANAGER.

>> LET ME SPREAD IT OUT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE WE'RE LOOKING BLACK AND WHITE.

>> YES.

>> BUT YOU HAVE YOUR CITY ATTORNEY SITTING NEXT TO YOU.

THAT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE OF HOW I BELIEVE YOU AS A COUNCIL MEMBER NEED TO BE ABLE TO CONTACT YOUR CITY ATTORNEY DIRECTLY WHEN YOU ARE LIMITED THROUGH THAT ONE FUNNEL, THEN YOU HAVE A DISRUPTION IN THE WAY IN WHICH YOU CAN GET COMMUNICATION DOWNSTREAM AND BACK UPSTREAM.

SO YOU HAVE YOUR CITY ATTORNEY, YOU HAVE YOUR CITY SECRETARY.

TECHNICALLY, THEY WORK FOR THE CITIZENS.

NOW, RIGHT NOW, OUR CHARTER HAS IT WHERE THE CITY MANAGER CONTROLS THEIR EMPLOYMENT.

BUT MOST CITIES DON'T.

MOST CITIES HAVE CITY SECRETARY, CITY ATTORNEY, APPOINTED BY COUNCIL, HIRED BY COUNCIL.

THEY WORK DIRECTLY FOR COUNCIL BECAUSE COUNCIL IS THE REPRESENTATIVE OF ALL OF THE CITIZENS AND HELD ACCOUNTABLE EVERY TIME THEY COME UP FOR A VOTE.

IN THE WAY IN WHICH EVERYTHING IS CONSOLIDATED UNDERNEATH THAT ONE POSITION, MY OPINION IS, IS THAT'S NOT HOW WE DO IT IN BUSINESS.

IT'S NOT FUNCTIONAL ON THE DAY TO DAY, HONESTLY.

NOW I SEE THAT WE COULD NARROW IT IN BECAUSE WE'RE SO AFRAID THAT IF WE DON'T HOLD IT DOWN AND CHOKE IT DOWN TO THIS TIGHT, THEN WE COULD HAVE SOME DAY TO DAY ISSUES THAT COULD COME UP.

BUT YOU'RE DEALING WITH ANDREW, YOU'RE DEALING WITH LAURA ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS ALREADY?

>> YEAH. I'M NOT THINKING OF AS A CHOKED UP SITUATION NECESSARILY.

I GUESS IT COULD BE.

I'M JUST SAYING THE WHOLE THING OF KIND OF THIS IS A LACK OF INFORMATION AND THIS COMMUNICATION OF GOING THROUGH THAT.

AGAIN AND AGAIN, I MAY BE OFF, BUT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER TO KEEP HE OR SHE FULLY INFORMED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON.

I AGREE WITH YOU, I THINK ON THE CITY SECRETARY AND CITY ATTORNEY.

THAT MAY BE AN ISSUE THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS BECAUSE I THINK COUNCIL NEEDS TO LOOK AT PERHAPS HAVING INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE.

IT'S DIRECTLY TO THEM, BUT I'M JUST SAYING.

BUT AS WE TRY TO CODIFY THIS, THE THING TO ME THAT COMES DOWN, DO IT, IS THE THING THAT YOU CAN'T CODIFY WHICH IS JUDGMENT.

THE FUNNY THING IS, IT SEEMS TO WORK IN THE BUSINESS ORGANIZATIONAL WORLD, THAT PEOPLE GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THAT JUDGMENT IS OF WHAT YOU LET SOMEONE KNOW.

OR IF YOU HAVE EMPLOYEES AT YOUR INSURANCE AGENT AGENCY, YOU GIVE THEM A GENERAL JOB DESCRIPTION.

BUT IF SOMEONE CALLS UP AND SAYS MY HOUSE BURNED DOWN AND I'M TRYING TO CALL AND I CAN'T GET THEM, AND YOU NEVER TOLD YOUR EMPLOYEE, WELL, SOMEBODY'S HOUSE IS BURNING DOWN AND YOU CALL THEM AND GET THEM, AND THEY DIDN'T TELL YOU THERE'S A JUDGMENT ISSUE THERE.

I THINK THAT'S WHERE IT SEEMS FOR SOME REASON, AND I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT IS, IT JUST SEEMS TO BE A LITTLE BIT HARDER TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF THAT JUDGMENT ISSUE.

THAT IS, YOU DON'T WANT TO GET SURPRISE AS INTERIM CITY MANAGER ABOUT SOMETHING WE MAY KNOW OR WHAT'S GOING ON, AND LIKEWISE, WE WOULD NOT WANT TO GET SURPRISE.

THE JUDGMENT IS ONE THING THAT I THINK IS HARD TO CODIFYING.

>> NO, THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE AN AWARENESS LEVEL OF THE CITY MANAGER, EVEN WITH THE DISCUSSION WITH THE ACM'S DEPUTY CITY MANAGER, OR THOSE.

I AGREE WITH THAT.

NOW, WHETHER THAT INITIATED AT THE CORE THOUGH, BACK TO THE PURPOSE OF THE POLICIES, WHAT BRIAN MENTIONED AT THE START, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE? YOU TO JUST VOICE TWO DIFFERENT OPINIONS OF WHERE YOU ARE IN RELATION TO WHAT THESE POLICIES SHOULD ACCOMPLISH.

BUT YOU HAVE TO WRITE THEM AS ALL FIVE.

THAT'S WHAT'S AT PLAY AND THAT'S WHY IT'S A GOOD HEALTHY DISCUSSION BACK TO WHY WE SHOULD REVIEW THEM FREQUENTLY BECAUSE THAT'S THE ISSUE RIGHT THERE.

[01:05:05]

>> LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION.

MAYOR, JUST BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT THAT UP.

I'M FLIPPING IT OUT.

I MEAN, AGAIN, YOU LOOK, WHEN THE CITY WAS ESTABLISHED, WE HAD NO ASSISTANT CITY MANAGERS, DEPUTIES, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.

I GUESS, IF I MAY BE TRYING TO SEE YOUR PROPOSAL ON THIS OR YOUR SIDE OF IT IS THAT BECAUSE IT HAS BECOME AN ORGANIZATION, SOME OF THE CITY MANAGER DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES, IT USED TO BE THAT FIRE CHIEFS, POLICE CHIEFS, YOU PROBABLY USED TO REPORT DIRECTLY TO CITY MANAGER AT SOME POINT, EVEN THOUGH YOU WEREN'T AN ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER.

BUT FOR SOME REASON ALONG THE WAY, WE HAVE ADDED THESE LEVELS TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

MAYBE THE CASE CAN BE MADE THAT THE CITY MANAGER OR THE PEOPLE DOING THE WORK ON YOUR BEHALF, WHICH WOULD BE THE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGERS, FALL UNDER THAT SAME UMBRELLA.

I NOW I'M ARGUING AGAINST MYSELF, I COULD SEE BOTH OF IT.

I THINK IT'S JUST TO ME AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHETHER WE HAVE THAT ABILITY OR CONTROL OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE INFORMED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON AND THE CITY MANAGER INFORMED AS WELL.

>> I LIKE THE DIRECTION THAT YOU'RE GOING AND I WON'T TALK TOO LONG.

I'D LOVE TO HEAR WHAT THE OTHERS WANT TO SAY ON THIS, BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT IN A TRUE BUSINESS SENSE, A BOARD OF DIRECTORS CAN CALL THE CFO, I DIDN'T GET THIS DOCUMENT.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS. TELL ME ABOUT THIS.

A BOARD OF DIRECTORS CAN CALL THE CEO, OBVIOUSLY, THE CIO.

YOU EXPLAIN THIS, WHATEVER.

NOW, THESE EXECUTIVES KNOW THAT THEY NEED TO GO LEFT AND RIGHT.

IF I'M THE CFO, I KNOW THAT I DIDN'T HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE BOARD MEMBER THAT I DIDN'T TELL MY BOSS ABOUT THAT.

THE RESPONSIBILITY COMES BACK UPSTREAM.

NOW, THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE TO CALL THE CEO AND SAY, I JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW I DID TALK TO THE CFO YESTERDAY AND I ASKED SOME QUESTIONS.

THEN I WANT TO KEEP YOU APPRISED.

WAIT NOW, YOUR JOB IS TO KEEP ME APPRISED.

YOUR JOB IS TO KEEP ME ADVISED YOUR STAFF THAT'S TO YOUR LEFT AND YOU'RE RIGHT AND BELOW YOU OUGHT TO KNOW THOSE CONVERSATIONS NEED TO HAPPEN BACK UP WHERE WE SEE THE PROBLEM IS NOT BETWEEN THE CFO OF THE CEO WHERE WE SEE THE PROBLEM IS DOWN AT THE DIRECTOR LEVEL.

MAYOR STANLEY IS OVER AT BUILDING SAFETY, TALKING BUILDING CODES AND STANDARDS WITH THE CHIEF.

THE CITY MANAGER KNOWS NOTHING OF IT AND NOW THE DIRECTOR OVER OUR BUILDING CHIEF DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

THE INSPECTORS WERE STANDING OVER THERE WITH MAYOR STANLEY ABOUT HOW TO INSPECT THE PROPERTY CORRECTLY, TOTALLY OUTSIDE OF BOUNDS.

THIS NEVER HAPPENED, BY THE WAY, FOR THE RECORD.

WE WOULD NEVER DO THIS.

THAT CREATED A TON OF CONFLICT.

PLUS, IT'S POLITICALLY DRIVEN.

NOW YOU'RE USING YOUR POLITICAL INFLUENCE TO GO AND CHANGE DIRECTOR POLICIES.

WELL, I DON'T WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THAT QUITE AS STRICTLY OR WHATEVER, SO WE DON'T DO THAT.

BUT WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM HERE ON THE THIRD FLOOR IN THE PRACTICAL, PROGRAMMATIC WAY THAT THIS ACTUALLY ALL WORKS OUT.

WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IS IF I WANTED TO, COULD WE AS A BODY DEFINE THESE AND MORE NARROWLY DEFINE THOSE RULES? BECAUSE I HAVE NO PROBLEM OF MAKING SURE THAT EVERY THING THAT I'M OUT THERE DOING, HE KNOWS ABOUT.

I DON'T MIND TAKING THAT.

THAT'S A COURTESY BECAUSE I WANT A GOOD HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP.

BUT IF I WORK FOR YOU, IT'S NOT A COURTESY.

THAT'S MY OBLIGATION.

MAYOR CAME TO MY OFFICE AND TOLD ME SOME THINGS, ASKED ME SOME QUESTIONS.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE HE KNOWS I'M FEEDING THAT BACK UP TO YOU.

I COPY YOU ON THE E MAIL IF I WORK UNDERNEATH YOU.

I THINK THIS IS IMPORTANT TO DEFINE BECAUSE WE HAD A CONVERSATION HERE ON THE DIOS OF, WELL, HOW DEEP DO YOU WANT TO GET? DO YOU WANT TO HIRE AND FIRE EVERYBODY? DO YOU WANT TO KNOW EXACTLY HOW MANY APPLICANTS KNOW? LET'S DEFINE THIS.

WE WANT TO KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE A FAILURE IN A DEPARTMENT, SO, AND SO IS LEAVING, AND NOW WE'RE NOT HEALTHY BECAUSE WE'RE LOSING THIS MEMBER OF OUR TEAM.

SURE, WE WANT TO KNOW THAT. ARE WE NEEDING TO GO OVER THOSE APPLICATIONS AND HELP YOU HIRE THOSE INDIVIDUALS? NOT AT ALL.

LET ME GET THE REST OF COUNCIL REAL QUICK BECAUSE I DO KNOW WHERE YOUR CONCERN IS AND I HAVE THE SAME.

BUT I ALSO DON'T WANT TO BACK AWAY FROM THE REALITY OF HOW WE FUNCTION CURRENTLY.

COUNCIL WEIGH IN ON WHERE YOU'RE AT WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS, MORE NARROWLY DEFINED.

>> WELL, I'LL JUST TELL YOU MY PREFERENCE ON THE THINGS, HOW IT OPERATES CURRENTLY WITH ME.

IF THERE'S AN ISSUE THAT COMES UP WITH A CITIZEN, I HAVE NO ISSUE GOING TO THE CITY MANAGER SAYING, HEY, THIS IS WHAT'S GOING ON.

I NEED YOU TO GIVE ME A VERIFICATION WHENEVER THIS IS COMPLETE.

A LOT OF TIMES IT'LL EITHER COME FROM HIM OR IT'LL COME FROM AN ACM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND I'M COMPLETELY FINE WITH THAT.

I THINK IT'S VERY HEALTHY.

[01:10:02]

>> I DON'T KNOW, GOING BACK AND FORTH ON THIS, BECAUSE I AGREE WITH THE BOARD.

WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TALK TO OUR EXECUTIVE STAFF FOR SURE.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I FEEL LIKE CITY MANAGER NEEDS TO KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW HOW WE CODIFY THIS TO SAY, IF I GO TO LAURA AND HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH HER REGARDING ANY ISSUE, IS IT UP TO HER TO LET CITY MANAGER KNOW? SAY, HEY, I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH MAYOR STANLEY ABOUT THIS, WHATEVER.

OR IF IT'S AN ISSUE, I THINK WE JUST GOT TO CLEARLY DEFINE AT WHAT LEVEL CAN WE SPEAK TO? IS IT DIRECTOR, OR DOES IT STOP AT ACM? BECAUSE I KNOW THE ACMS WANT TO KNOW.

IF WE GO BELOW THEM, EVEN TO THE DIRECTOR, THEY WANT TO KNOW AND SHOULD KNOW.

IN MY OPINION, WE DON'T NEED TO BE GOING TO THE DIRECTOR.

IT'S JUST MY OPINION.

I THINK IT UNDERMINES THE WHOLE WAY WE'RE STRUCTURED.

IF THE BOARD IS GOING TO A DIRECTOR LEVEL, THESE GUYS NEED TO KNOW ABOUT IT, IN MY OPINION.

>> I AGREE.

>> I THINK IF WE CAN STRUCTURE THE FACT THAT, WHERE DO WE STOP? WHERE DOES THE COUNCIL STOP? IS IT ACMS? DO WE HAVE ACCESS TO THE ACMS? OR DO WE SAY, ANY CONVERSATION THAT HAPPENS, CITY MANAGER HAS TO BE LOOPED IN, OR NEEDS TO BE LOOPED IN? IF THAT IS THE CASE, WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY IS THAT? IS IT COUNCILS TO LOOP CITY MANAGER IN, OR IS IT ACMS AFTER THE FACT TO LOOP THEM IN, OR IS IT BOTH? THERE HAS TO BE A LEVEL OF ACCOUNTABILITY BOTH WAYS, BECAUSE IF TOM IS STEPPING OUT AND DOING SOMETHING WRONG, NOT THAT YOU WOULD TOM, I'M NOT SAYING THAT.

BUT I WOULD EXPECT AND I WOULD WANT IF HE GOES AND TALKS TO A DIRECTOR, OR IF HE GOES AND TALKS TO STAFF BELOW DIRECTOR, HE'S OUT OF LINE.

HE NEEDS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

IF MAYOR STANLEY IS OVER THERE TALKING TO, SETTING UP INSPECTIONS.

AGAIN, WE NEED TO KNOW AS A COUNCIL, BECAUSE SOMEBODY IS OUT OF LINE.

THERE'S JUST THIS ACCOUNTABILITY THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN THAT NOT ONE OF US, BECAUSE AGAIN, WE MAY ALL GET ALONG AND EVERYTHING IS GREAT, BUT FUTURE COUNSELS AND EVERYTHING ELSE, WE CAN'T HAVE SOMEBODY GO ROGUE AND ABUSE THAT POWER, AND PUT THOSE PEOPLE, PUT THE STAFF IN A BAD POSITION OF GOING, LISTEN, I NEED YOU TO DO THIS, AND THEY'RE LIKE, WHOA.

>> ARE YOU GOOD AT THE ACM LEVEL, AS LONG AS THERE'S ACCOUNTABILITY? WE AGREE THAT AS COUNCIL, WE WILL UPDATE AND ALWAYS COMMUNICATE TO THE CITY MANAGER WHEN WE HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

BUT ALSO WE UNDERSTAND THAT THOSE ACMS HAVE COMMITTED TO COMMUNICATE AS WELL, AND SO YOU WOULD NEVER EXPECT AN EMAIL BACK THAT DIDN'T HAVE YOUR CITY MANAGER ON IT.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE AT THAT LEVEL OR ARE YOU SAYING NO, I THINK IT'S HEALTHIER TO STAY A LEVEL UP JUST WITH THAT ONE CENTRAL CITY MANAGER?

>> NO, I'M OKAY WITH THE ACM LEVEL AS LONG AS THE CITY MANAGER IS LOOPED IN.

BUT I THINK THAT THAT'S WHERE IT NEEDS TO STOP, IN MY OPINION.

BUT WE'VE GOT TO CLEARLY DEFINE THIS IN IN THIS POLICY.

>> CAN WE DEFINE THE ACMS AND CITY ATTORNEY, CITY SECRETARY IN THAT LINE, BECAUSE OF THE WAY IN WHICH THEY REPRESENT THE CITIZENS?

>> I WOULD AGREE.

I WOULD SAY YES, THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT.

BUT IF I TALKED TO BRIAN, I WOULD EXPECT HIM THE WAY THE CURRENT STRUCTURE IS, HE'S NOT WORKING FOR US NECESSARILY, SO THAT HE WOULD AGAIN LOOP.

BRIAN MIGHT BE THE ONLY ONE THAT IT WOULD EVER BE APPROPRIATE FOR YOU TO HAVE AN INDIVIDUAL CONVERSATION WITH AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS PRIVATE BETWEEN YOU AND I, AND HE WOULD HAVE TO AGREE TO THAT AS YOUR ATTORNEY OR YOUR COUNCIL PRIOR TO HOLDING THAT IN.

>> LET ME CLARIFY THAT JUST A SECOND.

A CITY ATTORNEY'S PRIMARY FUNCTION IS TO REPRESENT THE ORGANIZATION.

ONCE YOU GET INTO THAT REALM OF THOUGHT, REMEMBER THAT'S THE FIRST RESPONSIBILITY OF THAT CITY ATTORNEY AS THE ORGANIZATION.

>> IT COULD BE ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGED THOUGH IN THE WAY OF A LAWSUIT.

SO YOU WOULD NOT HAVE AN ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE OBLIGATION TO THE MAYOR OR COUNCIL, IF THERE WAS AN ACTUAL LAWSUIT OR A FEAR OF ONE?

>> REMEMBER, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S ROLE IS VERY SPECIALIZED, AND IT WON'T MATTER HOW YOU DEFINE IT.

NO MATTER WHO APPOINTS THEM, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THAT.

THE CITY ATTORNEY'S LOYALTY IS TO THE ORGANIZATION ITSELF.

THAT'S DEFINED IN THE MODEL RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT.

IN THAT SCENARIO, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S BOSS,

[01:15:05]

IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY A PERSON.

IT'S THE ORGANIZATION ITSELF.

SO I CAN DO THINGS, AND ANY CITY ATTORNEY CAN ONLY DO THINGS THAT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE ORGANIZATION, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT COUNCIL HAS A MISSION, THEY'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE WHATEVER IT IS, AND THAT CITY MANAGEMENT WISHES THIS TO BE DONE.

IN THE SCOPE OF YOUR QUESTION, IF THERE'S A LAWSUIT GOING ON, OBVIOUSLY, YOU'VE BEEN NAMED OR THE CITY HAS BEEN NAMED, THEN A COMMUNICATION WITH ME IS PROBABLY PRIVILEGED.

WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT BASED UPON THE CIRCUMSTANCES, WHAT THAT CONVERSATION IS, THINGS CAN CHANGE REAL QUICK.

I'M JUST SAYING THAT YOU WON'T REALLY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION UNTIL THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE PRESENTING THEMSELVES TO YOU.

CERTAINLY, WHEN YOU HAVE THOSE KINDS OF SCENARIOS AND THERE ARE UNFORTUNATE CIRCUMSTANCES A LOT OF TIMES, BUT AROUND THE STATE, MY COLLEAGUES CAN WEIGH IN ON THIS.

THEY COULD TELL YOU SOME HORRIBLE STORIES ABOUT THIS.

BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT IT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE HERE THAT THOSE CONVERSATIONS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN VERY GOOD.

THEY'VE BEEN INFORMAL BECAUSE WHERE I COULD ASSIST, I COULD ASSIST WITHOUT DISAVOWING MY RESPONSIBILITY TO THE ORGANIZATION.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

>> I THINK SO AND I THINK WE COULD TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT EXCEPTIONS APPLY, BUT BASED ON THE RULE THAT WILL FIT FOR THE MAJORITY.

I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, AND I THINK WE COULD AGREE CITY SECRETARY, CITY ATTORNEY, ACMS, AND CITY MANAGER IS HEALTHY AND IT'S LOGICAL.

BUT THEN THE COURTESY OF MAKING SURE YOU'RE ALWAYS INCLUDED, OR THE COURTESY OF MAKING SURE THAT THE FEEDBACK COMES UP THROUGH YOU, I THINK WE COULD FORMALIZE THAT AND IT'S A GOOD MOVE FORWARD.

>> ONE THING I WOULD ADD TO THAT DISCUSSION, JUST THE DEFINITION OR THE PROCESS OF ACCOUNTABILITY ALWAYS HAS TO GO THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER.

THE ACCOUNTABILITY COMPONENT THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN THE COMMUNICATION COMPONENT, BECAUSE ACCOUNTABILITY AT THE ACM LEVEL, MANAGING DIRECTOR LEVEL, OR ANY LEVEL IN THE ORGANIZATION, ACCOUNTABILITY COMPONENT IS JUST HAS TO GO THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER IF THERE'S AN ACCOUNTABILITY CONCERN.

IF ACCOUNTABILITY IS GREAT, THEN IT CAN GO IN THAT CHANNEL.

SO THERE'S A JUDGMENT AGAIN.

IS IT A GOOD THING OR ARE WE HAVING CHALLENGES? ACCOUNTABILITY REALLY HAS TO GO THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER.

IT'LL BREAK DOWN IF THAT'S NOT THE CASE ON THE ACCOUNTABILITY COMPONENT, THAT'S MY OPINION.

>> I AGREE.

WELL, I WAS SAYING ABSOLUTELY BECAUSE IF THEY DON'T PAY, YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE WE CAN HOLD ACCOUNTABLE?

>> YES.

>> I'M SORRY. WE DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO HOLD ANYBODY ELSE ACCOUNTABLE.

>> HENCE MY EARLIER COMMENT THAT IF IT'S FINANCIAL VIEW, YOU CAN GO STRAIGHT TO HER, BUT IF IT'S ACCOUNTABILITY, IT'S GOT TO GO THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER.

THERE'S A JUDGMENT OF WHAT YOUR ISSUE IS AT THE TIME THAT YOU'RE BRINGING TO THAT LEVEL THAT YOU'RE HAVING THAT DISCUSSION. DOES THAT HELP?

>> YEAH. ONE QUESTION.

BRIAN, IF ONE OF US CAME TO YOU WITH A QUESTION AND ASKED YOU TO KEEP IT CONFIDENTIAL, WOULD YOU KEEP IT CONFIDENTIAL, WOULD YOU TELL US, WAIT A MINUTE BEFORE YOU ASK THAT QUESTION, I CAN'T KEEP THAT CONFIDENTIAL?

>> YES, I WOULD TELL YOU, AND I'VE HAD THOSE CONVERSATIONS BEFORE WITH MANY PEOPLE, IN MY TIME.

IN OTHER WORDS, HERE'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.

THE SITUATION IS ALWAYS NUMBER 1, AS THE CITY ATTORNEY, YOUR JOB IS TO BE THE CONDUIT OF INFORMATION NOT ONLY JUST THROUGH COUNCIL BUT TO THE CITY MANAGER BECAUSE THE CITY MANAGER IS THE CHIEF OF OPERATIONS.

DEPENDING ON WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE, AND LIKE I SAID, I HAVEN'T HAD THIS IN MY EXPERIENCE, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, IT HASN'T REALLY COME UP, WHERE I FELT LIKE I HAD TO TELL YOU THAT.

BECAUSE IT'S FAIR KNOWLEDGE THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS IS THE WAY THE RULES ARE, BUT IN A SITUATION IN WHICH YOU WOULD SAY THAT TO ME AND IT WOULD VIOLATE MY OATH, RELATED TO MY LOYALTIES TO THE CITY ITSELF, I WOULD SAY TO YOU, UNDERSTAND NOW I'VE GOT TO SHARE THIS WITH OTHER PEOPLE.

YOU CAN'T BE TELLING ME THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE CONFIDENTIAL BECAUSE MY GOAL, MY JOB, MY ROLE IS TO HELP THE ORGANIZATION.

[01:20:04]

>> BUT IF ONE OF US COMES TO YOU AND SAYS KEEP IT CONFIDENTIAL, YOU'D HAVE TO SAY, SORRY, I CAN'T DO THAT?

>> I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO KEEP ANYTHING CONFIDENTIAL IF IT'S GOING TO HURT MY CLIENT.

>> WHICH IS NOT US?

>> AS A COUNCIL, YES.

DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

>> ONLY THEN IF ALL FIVE OF US ASK YOU A QUESTION IN THE EXECUTIVE SESSION AND ASK YOU TO KEEP IT CONFIDENTIAL.

>> DEPENDING ON WHAT IT IS.

>> I FEEL LIKE YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET AN ANSWER.

YOU'RE DOING THIS WEIRD DANCE.

YOU ANSWERED HIS FIRST QUESTION AS YES, BUT THE ACTUAL ANSWER WAS REALLY NO.

WE'RE NOT GETTING A REAL ANSWER HERE.

IT'S JUST THIS WEIRD DANCE OF HERE'S WHAT I WOULD SAY TO YOU.

>> ANY CITY ATTORNEY IS GOING TO SAY THAT.

>> WHAT? YES AND NO?

>> THEY'RE GOING TO TELL YOU THAT IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE GIVING TO THE CITY ATTORNEY THAT YOU'RE SAYING IT'S CONFIDENTIAL, BUT IT HURTS THE ORGANIZATION, IT'S CONTRARY TO WHAT THE ORGANIZATIONAL GOALS ARE, THAT PUTS THE CITY ATTORNEY IN [INAUDIBLE] POSITION.

>> COULD YOU EVER HOLD SOMETHING THAT WE TOLD YOU IN CONFIDENCE?

>> YES.

>> YOU COULD.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> JUST DEPENDING ON THE SUBJECT MATTER AND IF IT HURTS YOUR CLIENT, THE ORGANIZATION.

SO THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT WE COULD ASK AND YOU WOULD SAY, YES, I CAN DO THAT.

>> THAT IS CORRECT.

>> BUT THERE'S OTHERS THAT YOU WOULD SAY, I CAN'T.

MY CLIENT'S THE ORGANIZATION AND IT HURTS MY ORGANIZATION, SO THEREFORE, I CANNOT.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

>> SOME COUNCILS, I GUESS, HIRE ATTORNEY DIRECTLY?

>> YES. IN THE CHARTER THEY ACTUALLY APPOINT THE CITY ATTORNEYS.

>> SO THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE DIFFERENT IN THE CHARTER.

IN THAT CASE, IS IT STILL CONFIDENTIALITY ONLY APPLIES TO THE FULL COUNCIL OR DOES IT APPLY INDIVIDUALLY AT THAT POINT?

>> ONCE AGAIN, I'M SORRY, NO MATTER WHO HIRES THEM, THE LOYALTY OF THE CITY ATTORNEY IS TO THE ORGANIZATION.

YOU'LL FIND THAT ANYWHERE YOU GO.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU GO, IT'LL BE 100% THAT WAY.

>> SO IT DOESN'T CHANGE.

>> BUT IT DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

>> SO IT DOES NOT CHANGE IS WHAT YOU SAID, REGARDLESS OF THE STRUCTURE, WHATEVER, THE DUTY IS STILL THE SAME.

>> CORRECT.

>> REGARDLESS.

>> IT DOESN'T MATTER.

>> THE THING I SEE, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE BRIAN A PRIVATE ATTORNEY.

HE WORKS FOR THE CITY OF AMARILLO.

IF I'VE GOT A QUESTION THAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE PRIVATE, I NEED TO GO TO MY ATTORNEY AND DO THAT.

>> YEAH, I AGREE.

>> NOW, HE'S HIRED TO REPRESENT THE CITIZENS, WHICH WE ARE TOO, BUT IT WOULD TAKE ALL FIVE OF US IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.

AND THEN WE MIGHT LAY A HYPOTHETICAL, IF WE SAY THIS, CAN YOU KEEP IT QUIET? BUT WE CAN'T PUT HIM IN THAT PRIVATE ATTORNEY REPRESENTING TOM SHIRL [PHONETIC].

IF I NEED THAT LEVEL, I NEED TO GO TO MY ATTORNEY, WHICH I HAVE DONE BECAUSE I WANTED.

BRIAN, YOU GAVE US SOME OPINIONS.

I WENT AND GOT ANOTHER ATTORNEY'S OPINION BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE THE OPINIONS CORRELATE AND GO TOGETHER.

WE CAN'T HOLD HIM RESPONSIBLE AS MY PRIVATE ATTORNEY.

HE CAN REPRESENT THE COUNCIL OR HE CAN REPRESENT THE CITY, BUT HE'S PLAYING BOTH ENDS OF THE ROPE THERE.

I GOT A COUNCIL HERE AND I GOT THE CITY'S REPRESENTING.

AT SOME POINT THEY MAY COME IN CONFLICT.

THAT'S JUST MY THINKING THERE.

>> I KNOW YOU MAY NOT HAVE GOTTEN TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT.

DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH TO MOVE FORWARD?

>> WELL, AS LONG AS I KNOW, BECAUSE AGAIN, I'VE TALKED TO OTHER ATTORNEYS AS WELL, YES.

THIS IS WHAT I THOUGHT IT WAS, BUT IF YOU'RE ASKED THAT QUESTION, THEN BEFORE THE QUESTION COMES, YOU HAVE TO SAY, I'M GOING TO TELL YOU, I MAY NOT BE ABLE TO KEEP THIS CONFIDENTIAL.

>> THAT IS CORRECT.

IT ALL HAS TO DO WITH THE CIRCUMSTANCES YOU LAY OUT.

IN OTHER WORDS, ANYTIME YOU TALK TO YOUR LAWYER, THEY ALWAYS WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING BECAUSE IT CHANGES,

[01:25:01]

SO YES, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS, IS DURING THAT CONVERSATION, WHEN THE CIRCUMSTANCE COMES UP WHERE CLEARLY OR MAYBE NOT SO CLEARLY, IT'S GOING TO BE ADVERSE TO THE CITY ITSELF AS AN ORGANIZATION, THEN THAT'S A SITUATION IN WHICH I WILL GIVE YOU THAT LITTLE WARNING IF YOU WILL, AND SAY, REMEMBER NOW, I DON'T WANT YOU TO TELL ME MORE ABOUT THIS OR YOU NEED TO GO TO ANOTHER LAWYER ON THIS BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN ORGANIZATIONAL MATTER.

WE HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS ALL THE TIME.

>> WELL, I THINK THAT'S AS MUCH CONCLUSIVITY AS WE'RE GOING TO GET ON THAT ONE.

SO IT'S SUBJECTIVE.

I HAVE ONE FINAL THING HERE ON LAYING THIS OUT THAT I THINK WOULD BE HELPFUL, AND I'D LIKE STAFF'S OPINION ON HOW IT COMES BACK UP.

ONE OF THE STRUGGLES THAT I HAVE IS THAT WE HAVE DEPARTMENTS THAT HAVE INDIVIDUALS THAT WE HAVE PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH AND THEY HAVE AN ISSUE, LET'S SAY, WITH HR OR WITH MANAGEMENT OR WHATEVER.

SO THEY CIRCUMVENT THE ENTIRE PROCESS AND THEY COME DIRECTLY TO ONE OF US.

SO WE SHOULD TAKE THAT BACK TO YOU, BACK THROUGH THE ACMS AND LET THAT FILTER DOWN.

NOW, THAT FUNCTIONS THAT WAY IF THERE'S A VERIFICATION PROCESS.

WHERE IT DOESN'T FUNCTION IS IF WE DON'T HAVE A VERIFICATION PROCESS.

IF I COULD CALL THAT INDIVIDUAL AND SAY, DID YOU GET YOUR PROMOTION WORKED OUT THAT YOU HAD A GRIEVANCE WITH, OR DID YOU GET YOUR CORRECTION STRAIGHT THAT YOU DISAGREE? THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME IN AN ORGANIZATION LIKE THAT.

WE CANNOT DO THAT, I WOULDN'T WANT TO DO THAT.

WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GET VERIFICATION THROUGH YOU THAT THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING DOWN WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION?

>> ANDREW MAY WEIGH IN ON THIS ONE, BUT MY OPINION IS THAT THAT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER.

WHATEVER COMMUNICATION YOU GET IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE RESPOND IN HOW YOU COMMUNICATED IT TO THE CITY MANAGER.

IN OTHER WORDS, IF THAT WAS THE EMAIL, IF THAT WAS THAT.

NOW MANY TIMES THERE ARE EXPECTATIONS OF DETAILS WITHIN THAT RESPONSE THAT CAN'T EVEN BE SHARED IN THAT ROLE BASED OFF CIVIL SERVICE, HR AND OTHER FACTORS.

NOW SOMETIMES THERE ARE DETAILS THAT CAN BE SHARED WHEN IT'S NOT NECESSARILY PERSONNEL ISSUE.

WHEN IT IS TRULY A PERSONNEL ISSUE, IT IS THE CITY MANAGERS AND HIS TEAM'S RESPONSIBILITY TO DEAL WITH THAT AND JUST LET THE COUNCIL MEMBER KNOW WE'VE DEALT WITH IT.

IT GETS THAT SIMPLE.

WOULD YOU ADD TO THAT?

>> WELL, IF THAT HAPPENED, A SCENARIO LIKE THAT, I WOULD ASSUME THAT WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS ALMOST LIKE BRIAN JUST SAID, HEY, I GOT TO LET YOU KNOW SUSIE, I GOT TO TAKE THIS THROUGH CITY MANAGER.

I MEAN, I CAN'T KEEP THIS IN CONFIDENCE.

I CAN'T. IF YOU'RE LETTING ME KNOW, I'VE GOT TO LET THEM KNOW.

THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO TO FIGURE THIS OUT.

IF SOMEBODY COMES UP AND SAYS, HEY, THINGS AREN'T GOING RIGHT IN THE ORGANIZATION AND I NEED TO LET YOU KNOW WE CAN'T GET INVOLVED IN THE ORGANIZATION.

WE JUST HAVE TO GO TO HIM AND SAY, LISTEN, THIS IS WHAT WAS TOLD TO ME.

WOULD YOU LIKE YOU SAID, COMMUNICATE DOWN AND LET'S GET IT BACK UP?

>> I KNOW LAST WEEK I HAD WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE HAPPENED.

I WENT TO FLOYD. I GAVE HIM A THICK FOLDER OF PAPER.

I SAID, FLOYD, THIS IS YOURS, DEAL WITH IT, WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.

I STEPPED COMPLETELY OUT OF IT AT THAT POINT BECAUSE I DON'T NEED TO BE IN THERE.

I JUST NEEDED TO MAKE SOMEBODY AWARE.

TO ME, FLOYD WOULD TAKE IT DOWN TO THE ACM OR WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO.

BUT I THINK ON SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WE NEED TO TAKE IT DIRECTLY TO THE ACM.

THEN, LIKE MYSELF, I MIGHT WANT TO MAKE MY MAYOR AWARE AT THE SAME TIME.

BECAUSE THAT WAY THIS SIDE HAS COMMUNICATION.

THAT SIDE HAS COMMUNICATION IN CASE IT COMES BACK TO US, YOU KNOW ABOUT IT OR A COUPLE OF US WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT.

>> I JUST WANTED TO GET MORE DEFINITION.

WE HAVE UNIONS, WE HAVE ASSOCIATIONS THAT OPERATE OUTSIDE OF THAT CHAIN OF COMMAND.

I'VE ALWAYS FELT THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH AN ASSOCIATION OR WITH A UNION.

THOSE INDIVIDUALS ARE TELLING ME UP FRONT, HEY, I'M NOT HERE AS AN EMPLOYEE, I'M HERE AS A REPRESENTATIVE FOR SO AND SO OR WHATEVER, AND THE GRIEVANCES CAN COME THROUGH THAT.

[01:30:01]

I MEAN, A LOT OF TIMES IN YOUR CIVIL SERVICE ISSUE, IT'S THEY READ 143 THIS WAY, YOU READ 143 THAT WAY.

WHO'S THE ARBITER OF TRUTH HERE? CAN I GET THAT BACK TO SEE WHO ENDED UP WITH THAT OUTCOME?

>> THE ASSOCIATION COMMUNICATION IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN AN INDIVIDUAL.

OBVIOUSLY, THEY ARE INVOLVED IN POLITICS AND THEY CAN INTERACT WITH YOU DIFFERENTLY THAN A SINGLE EMPLOYEE.

THEY'RE NOT THAT, BUT THE ISSUES RELATED TO PERSONNEL ARE ALL COVERED UNDER CIVIL SERVICE AND OUR PERSONNEL POLICY, AND WE HAVE THE APPROPRIATE APPEALS PROCESS FOR BOTH SECTIONS OF CIVIL SERVICE THROUGH OUR CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION.

THERE ARE APPROPRIATE CHANNELS.

YOU SEE THAT THE TOPIC, IF IT'S POLITICAL, YES, YOU CAN TALK TO THE ASSOCIATION.

I WOULD LIKE THE COURTESY OF KNOWING.

HOWEVER, AGAIN BACK TO THE PERSONNEL ISSUE, THERE ARE APPROPRIATE PROCEDURES IN PLACE WITHIN THE POLICIES AND RULES IN THE CIVIL SERVICE LAWS AND OUR CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION THAT WE'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE AND OUR HR DEPARTMENT MANAGES THAT.

I WOULD DRAW A LINE BETWEEN THAT TWO.

THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PERSONNEL ISSUE AND THE COMMUNICATION ON ASSOCIATION.

YES, THEY CAN MEET YOU AS POLITICAL OFFICIAL AND THAT'S ACCEPTABLE.

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> ANYTHING YOU'D ADD?

>> OKAY. WE'RE WORKING OUR WAY THROUGH THIS.

WE MAY WANT TO CHANGE SOME VERBIAGE.

IT'S 10 O'CLOCK.

DO WE HAVE CLARITY? DO WE DISAGREE? DOES ANY OF COUNCIL AGREE THAT ACM AND CITY SECRETARY, CITY ATTORNEY, CITY MANAGER, ALL NEEDS TO HAVE CIRCULAR COMMUNICATION UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT.

EVERYTHING GETS COMMUNICATED.

YOU SHOULD NEVER ASSUME THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO BRIAN AND THAT HE'S NOT GOING TO TELL YOUR CITY MANAGER WHATEVER YOU SAID.

THEN VICE VERSA, IF I SEND AN EMAIL TO ANDREW, I WOULD EXPECT AN EMAIL FROM ANDREW BACK COPY AND FLOYD.

CAN WE AGREE ON THAT? THAT THAT SPAN OF CONTROL IS A GOOD HEALTHY WAY TO MOVE FORWARD THAT GIVES STAFF A LITTLE BIT BETTER CLARIFICATION AND THAT THE COURTESY IS VERY IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A HISTORY, WE DON'T HAVE A LONG RELATIONSHIP TO RELY BACK ON.

WE MAY NOT HAVE THE TRUST LEVEL THAT WE NEED.

OVER COMMUNICATING AND MAKING SURE WE'RE COPYING EVERYBODY IS HEALTHY.

ANYBODY WANT TO DIRECT THAT DIFFERENTLY, GO ANY FURTHER DOWN OR BRING IT BACK UP?

>> AS I SIT HERE AND THINK ABOUT IT AND THINKING THROUGH THIS IS, IT'S ALMOST LIKE THIS MANAGEMENT STAFF IS ONE BODY LIKE WE ARE.

BUT IT'S UNUSUAL BECAUSE JUST LIKE WE HAVE FIVE DIFFERENT ENDS.

I THINK TO THAT POINT, AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET, BECAUSE I THINK THIS DEFINING COMMUNICATION AND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, OBVIOUSLY WE'VE DEFINED, OKAY, WHAT DOES COMMUNICATION LOOK LIKE COMING FROM US TO THEM AND HOW DO WE DO THAT, SINCE IT'S MENTIONED A COUPLE OF TIMES HERE IN THE CHARTER.

MAYBE ALSO PUTTING A LITTLE BIT MORE MEAT ON THE BONE A LITTLE BIT LATER ON HOW THE COMMUNICATION LOOKS COMING FROM STAFF TO COUNCIL.

>> DO YOU MEAN WRITTEN? ARE YOU SAYING, WELL LET'S WRITE IT DOWN, LET'S EMAIL IT, THAT WAY IT'S DOCUMENTED.

VERSUS VERBAL COMMUNICATION A LOT OF TIMES CAN GET MISINTERPRETED.

ARE YOU SAYING DEFINE IT MORE THAT WAY OR WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY [INAUDIBLE]?

>> COULD BOTH POSSIBLY BE PART OF THIS.

I THINK PART OF IT IS.

BUT IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT GOVERNANCE AND POLICIES, THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE THAN JUST EMAILS GOING BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE CITY MANAGER AND COUNCIL.

I MEAN, TO ME, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME TYPE OF SOMETHING MAYBE EVEN STRUCTURED.

SETTING UP FOR CONSTANT COMMUNICATION, EVEN SITTING DOWN AND SAYING, HEY, HERE'S THE EXPECTATION.

CITY MANAGERS ARE GOING TO SAY, HEY, WE NEED TO SET SOMETHING UP EVERY COUPLE OF WEEKS.

IF WE'RE GOING TO GET THESE GUIDELINES ON HOW THE COMMUNICATION SHOULD BE GOING AND MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE DOING IT THE RIGHT WAY.

>> ARE WEEKLY REPORTS FROM THE CITY MANAGER GREATLY HELPED? I LIKE THOSE. I THINK THEY'RE VERY HELPFUL AND WE NEED TO KEEP THAT GOING.

WHAT ELSE WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE, LIKE THIS QUARTERLY MEETING TO UPDATE AND DISCUSS.

[01:35:03]

OVER THE LAST QUARTER, ARE WE ALL FULFILLING OUR ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES? CAN IT BE THAT HIGH LEVEL ON A QUARTERLY? DO YOU GUYS THINK MAYBE WE DO IT TWICE A YEAR, EVERY SIX MONTHS, OR RIGHT NOW WHAT IT'S SAYING IS ONCE A YEAR.

DO WE NEED TO DO IT FOUR TIMES A YEAR?

>> I THINK YOU NEED TO DO IT MORE THAN ONCE A YEAR.

I'D JUST SAY DEFINITELY A QUARTER.

IF WE DID THIS A QUARTER, THAT MEETING IS NOT GOING TO TAKE THAT LONG.

THEN IF WE GO INTO THE APPENDIX OF THIS DOCUMENT, IT TELLS US CITY MANAGER RESPONSIBILITIES, IT TELLS US COUNCIL RESPONSIBILITIES, IT TELLS THE MAYOR'S RESPONSIBILITY.

IF WE GO THROUGH THOSE AND WE MIGHT NEED TO ADD SOMETHING TO THE MAYOR'S RESPONSIBILITY, WE MIGHT NEED TO ADD SOMETHING TO THE CITY MANAGER'S RESPONSIBILITY, THAT'S BASICALLY HIS WOULD APPEAR ON APPENDIX.

WHERE WAS IT? YEAH. I THINK IF WE GO AND WORK THIS DOCUMENT THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED, WE CAN TAILOR IT TO OUR COUNCIL NEEDS AND FUTURE COUNCILS CAN WEIGH IN AND CHANGE IT TO MEET THEIR NEEDS, BECAUSE EVERY COUNCIL IS GOING TO HAVE SOME DIFFERENCE.

THEY CAN TAKE OUT SOMETHING OR THEY CAN ADD SOMETHING.

BUT WE HAVE GOT TO COMMUNICATE WHAT WE WANT.

I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE IN WRITING AND THIS IS A GOOD DOCUMENT.

I MEAN, REALLY. THAT'S JUST MY THOUGHT.

>> DID YOU HAVE ANY OTHER EXAMPLES?

>> NO. I MEAN, AGAIN, I JUST THINK THE MORE THE COMMUNICATION CAN GO THROUGH, THE BETTER IT IS THAT THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO PUT.

IN THIS POLICY WHEN YOU SAY, IT'S A GOOD POLICY FOR THE CITY MANAGER TO MEET.

IS IT A WEEKLY BASIS WITH THE COUNCIL FOR EACH COUNCIL PERSON? AGAIN, I'M JUST THINKING THAT WOULD BE A GOOD JUDGMENT.

[LAUGHTER] BUT IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO PUT IN THE WRITING TO HELP FACILITATE THE COMMUNICATION BECAUSE YES, THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE DOCUMENTED, BUT THERE ARE AND MAYBE FLOYD WOULD HAVE SOME SUGGESTIONS ON SETTING UP THE PERMANENT CITY MANAGER, WHOEVER THAT MAY BE, WITH THE STRUCTURE AND FRAMEWORK OF WHAT GOOD COMMUNICATION WOULD LOOK LIKE AND HOW THAT WOULD WORK.

>> YES, I THINK THAT'S A VERY DIVERSE APPROACH.

IN OTHER WORDS, YOU HAVE THE FORUM THAT ANDREW HELPED PUT IN PLACE, WHICH IS A VERY POSITIVE TOOL IN THAT COMMUNICATION COMPONENT, ESPECIALLY ON THE POLICY DISCUSSION.

BUT YES, WHATEVER FREQUENCY THAT Y'ALL WOULD DEEM, I THINK THAT IT IS APPROPRIATE THAT THERE'S ROUTINE FOLLOW UP WHICH HELPS THE ORGANIZATION.

WEEKLY, I'M FINE WITH THAT.

THAT CAN GET EXCESSIVE AT TIMES WHEN THERE'S NOT MUCH CHANGE.

BUT YOU ALWAYS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A FIVE MINUTE, WE'RE GOOD AND EVERYTHING'S GOOD, THOSE KINDS OF COMMUNICATION COMPONENTS.

BUT FEEDBACK, I THINK, IS WHAT I'VE HEARD THIS MORNING AS A COMPONENT THAT NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED.

I THINK THE EXPECTATION OF FEEDBACK IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE READ HERE.

I THINK IN MY OPINION, FROM DOING IT TWO WEEKS, I THINK FEEDBACK IS WHERE THAT COMPONENT, AND IS THAT A WEEKLY MEETING FOR THAT FEEDBACK? IS THAT SOME OTHER FORM? [OVERLAPPING]

>> WHATEVER WE DETERMINED TO BE, MAYBE WE DON'T GIVE A TIMETABLE IN THERE, BUT THERE JUST NEEDS TO BE CONSISTENT TIME.

>> THAT COMMUNICATION COMPONENT AND RESPONSIBILITIES RANGES FROM THAT LEVEL OF DAY TO DAY COMMUNICATIONS TO THE AUDITS AND THE THINGS THAT ARE REQUIRED TO KEEP YOU UP TO DATE.

IT'S A VERY FORMAL PROCESS.

I WOULD ARGUE, MAYOR, MY GENERATION, ONCE IN A WHILE WE WROTE A MEMO, NOT AN EMAIL.

[LAUGHTER].

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> I THINK IT MIGHT BE GOOD TO HAVE ANOTHER MEETING IN 90 DAYS ON THIS JUST TO REVIEW IT.

BUT IN HINDSIGHT, THIS MEETING THAT WE'RE HAVING RIGHT HERE TODAY PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN ONE FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF OUR TENURE BECAUSE IT WAS MENTIONED BRIEFLY IN PRESENTATIONS, BUT I THINK ONCE WE SIT DOWN AND DO THAT, MAYBE WE'LL NEED A MEETING EVERY QUARTER, BUT I DOUBT IT.

I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO CHECK IN 90 DAYS TO MAKE SURE THAT THINGS ARE WORKING, AND THE OTHER THING IS SOMETIME LATER THIS YEAR WE'LL HAVE A NEW CITY MANAGER IN PLACE.

[01:40:06]

>> WHAT I SAW THERE, COUNCIL MEMBER SIMPSON WAS I AGREE.

I THINK THAT GOING OVER THESE DOCUMENTS IN OUR ORIENTATION OF NEW COUNCIL MEMBERS IS INCLUDED IN THE LEGAL UPDATE AND THE OTHERS AND IT NEEDS TO BE OF ITS OWN.

IT NEEDS TO BE A SESSION OF ITS OWN, ORIENTATION OF A NEW COUNCIL MEMBER BECAUSE, I THINK THAT GIVES THE IMPORTANCE TO A NEW COMING COUNCIL MEMBER OF WHAT THIS DOCUMENT IS.

NOW, IT NEEDS TO REMAIN PART OF THE LEGAL PRESENTATION, SO HOW IT INTERACTS WITH ALL OF THE LEGAL PRESENTATION, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A SEPARATE ONE, BUT IT NEEDS A DEDICATED TIME FRAME IN THE ORIENTATION PROCESS.

THAT PIECE, I THINK IS IMPORTANT.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> I DON'T DISAGREE. I'LL TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CAPITALIZE ON A POLITICAL WILL OF NO ONE WOULD DO THIS, NO ONE WOULD ROLL ALL FIVE DIRECTORS OR BOARD MEMBERS OFF OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND THEN ROLL FIVE ON AND THEN SAY, HEY, Y'ALL GOT THREE DAYS.

OH, BY THE WAY, READ OUR HISTORY AND GET OUR TRIBAL KNOWLEDGE, UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING, DEVELOP RELATIONSHIPS.

LET'S MOVE FORWARD WITH TRUST AND IF YOU'VE GOT ANY QUESTIONS, LET US KNOW BY SAY, FIVE O'CLOCK TODAY.

VERY UNHEALTHY THE WAY IN WHICH THE CHARTER IS SET UP.

WE DON'T HAVE STAGGERED TERMS. WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO ROLL ONE OFF AND ROLL ONE ON.

I KNOW AS A COUNCIL MEMBER COMING ON, JUST THE ONE, IT WAS DIFFICULT TO CATCH UP, AND SO TO HAVE FOUR BROUGHT ON AND A NEW MAYOR, WE WATCH MAYOR NELSON TRY TO DO IT, AND THEN YOU'RE WATCHING US TRY TO DO THE SAME THING AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOOK TOO FAR BEFORE HER WHERE THERE ARE BETTER WAYS TO RUN A GOVERNMENT AND A BUSINESS THAN THE WAY IN WHICH WE ARE CHARTERED.

ONCE AGAIN, WE NEED TO HAVE FURTHER CONVERSATIONS NOW.

I WOULD LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO KEY IN ON A VISION STATEMENT THAT I WOULD LIKE TO UPDATE.

I THINK THIS COUNCIL NEEDS TO PUT FORWARD A VISION STATEMENT.

NOT ONLY AN UPDATE TO THIS DOCUMENT, BUT LET'S FORMALLY CAST A VISION.

WE'VE SAID A LOT OF THINGS.

WE DEFINITELY ADHERE TO SOME PRINCIPLES.

WE'VE WALKED IT OUT IN DAY TO DAY OPERATIONS OF MAKING SURE THE VOICE OF THE VOTER, THE VOICE OF THE CITIZEN GETS HEARD.

IMPLEMENTING CERTAIN THINGS IN OUR MEETINGS AND THE WAY IN WHICH WE ARE ACCOUNTABLE TO OUR CONSTITUENTS, BUT WE NEED TO FORMALIZE THAT.

WE DON'T NEED TO DO THAT HERE TODAY BUT I WOULD ASK COUNCIL TO BEGIN IN DISCUSSIONS WITH EACH OTHER OR ON THE MESSAGE FORM, LET'S START CRAFTING WHAT THIS VISION STATEMENT NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE, AND WHEN WE BRING THIS BACK UP, I WOULD LIKE TO DIRECT THIS, I'M ASSUMING IT'S GOING TO GO TO BRIAN, AND, BRIAN, YOU WOULD NEED SOME DIRECTION ON HOW TO UPDATE THIS DOCUMENT OR IS THIS GOING TO GO TO STAFF, ANDREW, FLOYD, YOU GUYS WOULD MAKE CHANGES?

>> IT'S IT'S A COMBINATION OF BOTH.

ALWAYS NO MATTER WHAT CHANGE WE MAKE TO THIS DOCUMENT, IT'S GOING TO GO THROUGH STAFF AND THE ATTORNEY SO I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU THAT HOW DID YOU ENVISION GETTING THIS DISCUSSION INTO THE DOCUMENT? YOU WANT US TO BRING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THAT?

>> WELL, THE WAY I ENVISION IT IS IF WE COULD TAKE A FEW MINUTES HERE, MAYBE 30 MINUTES, 45 MINUTES TO GO THROUGH.

I'VE GOT THREE OR FOUR THINGS THAT I SEE WHERE I'M, I WOULDN'T HAVE INCLUDED THAT.

I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARY.

I WOULD LIKE TO STRIKE IT.

MAYBE COUNCILMAN CRAFT SAYS, WELL, I AGREE OR HE DISAGREES.

I WANT TO KEEP THAT.

BUT WE COULD GIVE SOME SPECIFICS TO THE LANGUAGE IN THIS DOCUMENT.

GIVE IT BACK OVER TO STAFF.

HAVE YOU GUYS DRAFT AND BRING BACK WITH ADDITIONAL RECOMMENDATIONS IF YOU'RE SEEING SOMETHING ELSE.

HEY, Y'ALL TOLD US YOU WANTED TO HAVE THIS SPAN OF CONTROL.

LET'S WRITE THAT IN.

LET'S FLOW CHART THAT.

LET'S NARROWLY DEFINE.

HERE'S THE APPROPRIATE WAY TO GET VERIFICATION BACK UP THROUGH THE ORGANIZATION.

THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE'VE PUT FORWARD HERE.

IF YOU GUYS CAN PUT IT IN PRINT, I THINK THAT'S VERY HELPFUL.

I WOULD BE GLAD TO BRING THIS BACK UP IN MAY.

GIVE OURSELVES A LITTLE TIME TO GET THIS DONE.

BRING IT BACK WITH AN EXPECTATION OF EACH COUNCIL MEMBER BRING FORWARD WHAT YOUR VISION IS AND LET'S MOLD THEM TOGETHER AS A BODY AND HAVE A VISION STATEMENT MOVING FORWARD.

THEN LET'S BRING THIS DOCUMENT BACK WITH THESE CHANGES AND RECOMMENDATIONS, AND LET'S FINALIZE THIS BEFORE YOU HIRE A NEW CITY MANAGER SO THAT A NEW CITY MANAGER COMES IN AND DOESN'T SAY, AND YOU'LL DON'T EVEN HAVE A VISION STATEMENT HERE.

HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHAT YOUR EXPECTATIONS ARE?

[01:45:01]

>> I AGREE WITH YOU, MAYOR, FOR SURE.

I THINK THIS DOCUMENT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO SOMEBODY THAT'S APPLYING FOR A CITY MANAGER'S POSITION.

THEY NEED TO KNOW WHAT WE EXPECT, AND THIS SPELLS IT OUT.

NOW, I KNOW WHEN I WENT THROUGH THIS DOCUMENT, I GOT, I THINK, FOUR LITTLE CHANGES I'D LIKE TO MAKE.

I KNOW YOU'VE GOT SOME CHANGES SO WE CAN BRING ALL OF OUR CHANGES TOGETHER AT ANOTHER TIME.

>> WELL, I THINK THAT WE COULD DO IT HERE AND JUST GET THEM OUT THERE.

>> OKAY.

>> HAVE A LITTLE DISCUSSION ON THE ONES THAT WE AGREE ON THEN WE DON'T HAVE TO DELAY OR BELABOR THE PROCESS TO COME BACK THROUGH IT.

BUT THEN IF WE HAVE SOME SIGNIFICANT ISSUE, THEN LET'S MAXIMIZE OUR TIME HERE THIS MORNING WHILE WE'VE GOT A CALLED MEETING.

THEN LET'S TAKE IT UP ON MESSAGE BOARD, WE COULD HIT A FEW, BUT IS THAT WHAT YOU ENVISION OR IS THERE A BETTER WAY FOR STAFF TO DO THIS?

>> WELL, I HAD ENVISIONED IT VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED.

TYPICALLY, YOU'D HAVE SOME CONSULTANT HELPING YOU THROUGH THIS PROCESS, BUT WE ARE VERY CAPABLE OF WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED AND I THINK THAT'S THE BEST PATH FORWARD.

>> I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED THAT BECAUSE I HAD FORGOTTEN ABOUT IT BUT I DO THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO HAVE A HIRED CONSULTANT COME BACK WHEN WE BRING THIS BACK TO FIRM UP OUR VISION STATEMENT, GO THROUGH ANY OF THE DRAFT, AND JUST GIVE US A LOOK BACK OF, MAYOR AND COUNCIL, Y'ALL MADE SOME GOOD MOVES HERE.

I SEE THIS.

THIS OVERLAYS THE WAY WE SEE IT ACROSS THE STATE AND OTHER MUNICIPALITIES, OR, WELL, THIS IS A VERY UNIQUE DOCUMENT.

YOU REALIZE YOU'RE THE ONLY PEOPLE TRYING TO OPERATE LIKE THIS.

THAT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL I'D SAY.

>> THAT IS VERY POSITIVE BECAUSE IT PREVENTS THE OPERATIONAL PERSPECTIVE FROM LEADING IT AND IT PREVENTS THE POLITICAL SIDE FROM LEADING IT, AND YOU GET A MORE OBJECTIVE VIEW OF THAT DISCUSSION.

>> AGREED. ANY FEEDBACK ON THAT FROM COUNCIL?

>> FIVE MINUTE BREAK, PLEASE.

>> YOU NEED A FIVE MINUTE BREAK THEN LET'S COME BACK AND WE'LL TAKE EACH ONE, PLACE ONE THROUGH FOUR.

IF YOU HAVE A LIST OF POTENTIAL CHANGES, LET'S SEE HOW MANY OF THESE ARE DUPLICATED THAT WE CAN ALL AGREE ON.

FIVE MINUTES WE'LL COME BACK. THANK YOU.

HERE FROM OUR SHORT RECESS TO GO BACK THROUGH IT WHERE WE LEFT OFF IS WE WANTED TO START, JUST GO 1, 2, 3, AND 4.

LIST ANYTHING THAT YOU'VE GOT HIGHLIGHTED, ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO STRIKE OR AMEND, AND THEN IF YOU HAVE AN ADDITION, FEEL FREE TO BRING IT FORWARD.

OTHERWISE, IF STAFF CAN TAKE GOOD NOTES ON ALL THIS AND BRING IT BACK WITH FURTHER RECOMMENDATIONS.

LET'S JUST START WITH PLACE 1 ON PAGE 1 HERE.

>> WHAT DO YOU GOT, COUNCILMAN?

>> STEP GOING BY PAGE.

I'LL JUST TELL YOU WHAT I HAD DOWN.

THE MAJORITY OF THE STUFF IN MY OPINION REFLECTS BACK.

IT REFERS A LOT TO THE BLUEPRINT DEAL, THIS DOCUMENT RIGHT HERE, AND SO MY QUESTION, IS WE NEED TO GET AN UPDATED VERSION OF THIS TO BE IN LINE WITH ALL THESE THINGS THAT REFLECT THE COUNCIL'S BLUEPRINT?

>> WE VERY MUCH CAN UPDATE THE BLUEPRINT FOR AMARILLO DOCUMENT IF THAT'S YOUR CHOICE.

>> I GUESS, HOW DO WE NEED TO GO ABOUT ADJUSTING THIS POLICY EVEN THOUGH IT'S REFLECTING THIS ONE IN HERE?

>> ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT CONFLICTS BETWEEN THE TWO?

>> YEAH, BECAUSE IT SAYS COUNCIL'S BLUEPRINT FOR AMARILLO, ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS REFER TO THIS DOCUMENT BUT WE DON'T HAVE OUR UPDATED VERSION THAT WE PUT IN BACK IN JULY.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> EDUCATION PILLAR WOULD BE A GOOD EXAMPLE.

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> YES.

>> YOU GUYS JUST NEED TO UPDATE BLUEPRINT FOR AMARILLO PRINT?

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> INSTEAD OF REFERRING TO BLUEPRINT, WE SHOULD REFER TO COUNCIL STRATEGIC PILLARS AND MILESTONES, THAT WOULD FIX IT.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> THAT WILL SOLVE A LOT AND TAKE A TON OF WORKLOAD OFF OF EVERYBODY TO TRY TO GO BACK IN AND REVISE THAT, SO BLUEPRINT FOR AMARILLO IS CONSIDERED OUTDATED BASED ON WHAT STAFF IS LOOKING AT?

>> YES.

>> GREAT.

NUMBER 1, CHANGES IN GOVERNANCE AND ENDS DOCUMENTS WILL NOW REFERENCE THE STRATEGIC PILLARS?

>> RIGHT.

>> STRATEGIC PILLARS. YES.

>> THEN ON PAGE 12, GOVERNANCE AND ENDS POLICY.

UNDER 3.2A NUMBER 11.

WHEN IT'S TALKING ABOUT TECHNOLOGY TO ENSURE EFFECTIVE AND EFFICIENT CUSTOMER SERVICE EXPERIENCES,

[01:50:04]

>> YOU CAN MAKE THAT IT INCLINES WITH INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS RESOLUTION.

>> WHEN IT'S TALKING ABOUT TECHNOLOGY FOR EFFECTIVE AND EFFICIENT CUSTOMER SERVICE EXPERIENCES, I'M TALKING ABOUT ADDING WITH RESPECT TO CITIZENS PRIVACY RIGHTS.

TO OUR CITIZENS OR PRIVACY RIGHTS.

LIKE HE WAS SAYING WITH OUR RESOLUTION THAT WE PASS, THAT'D BE A GOOD ONE TO REFER TO.

THEN THE LAST THING I HAD WAS OBVIOUSLY THE VISION AND MISSION WHICH WE DISCUSSED EARLIER.

I THINK THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

BUT THE MAJORITY OF THE THINGS THAT I SAW ON THIS FOR ME WERE HOW IT KEPT REFERRING TO THE BLUEPRINT BUT IT LOOKS LIKE WE CAN FIX THAT. THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT.

>> SHORT AND SWEET FROM PLACE 1.

LET'S MOVE TO PLACE 2.

>> IN HINDSIGHT, I DIDN'T DO THIS VERY WELL.

I WENT THROUGH THE DOCUMENT, HIGHLIGHTED STUFF INSTEAD OF MAKING A LIST.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> WITH TIME.

>> THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS, THERE'S SOME DUPLICATION, I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT THE MEETING ANNUAL.

IF WE WANT TO UPDATE THAT AS WE DISCUSSED TODAY.

IF WE WANT TO CHANGE THAT, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE YOU SAY AT LEAST ANNUALLY, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

CHANGE THE VERBIAGE THAT WE DO NEED TO GET TOGETHER WHEN YOU DO NEED TO REVIEW THIS.

I THINK DEFINITELY WITH AS NEW CITY MANAGER'S HIRED AND TO YOUR POINT, MAYOR, WITH THE FIRST MEETINGS THAT WE HAVE, THAT IF WE DO HAVE A COMPLETELY NEW COUNCIL, THAT IT'S NOT REALLY CONDUCIVE.

I DON'T THINK THAT NEW PEOPLE SITTING ON HERE GO THROUGH THIS.

I DON'T KNOW. THERE'S SOME LANGUAGE.

I JUST DON'T THINK THAT YOU GET UNEDUCATED PEOPLE IN HERE TRYING TO LOOK THROUGH THIS AND CHANGE IT.

[OVERLAPPING] >. I DEFINITELY HEAR IT [INAUDIBLE] TIME FRAME.

>> YEAH. FOR SURE.

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> THERE'S THAT. LET'S SEE HERE.

AGAIN, I THINK THAT'S IN THERE A FEW TIMES AS FAR AS REVIEWING THAT OFTEN, LET'S SEE.

IF WE WANTED TO MAKE, AS YOU STATED BEFORE, THE CITY MANAGER WEEKLY REPORT.

I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S MUCH NEEDED.

ON PAGE 9 VERSUS COUNCIL STAFF LINKAGE, MONITORING EXECUTIVE PERFORMANCE, IT TALKS ABOUT A GIVEN POLICY MAY BE MONITORED IN THREE WAYS.

INTERNAL REPORT, EXTERNAL REPORT, DIRECT COUNCIL INSPECTION.

IF WE WANT TO CLARIFY AND SAY, HEY, MAYBE FROM THE CITY MANAGER'S POINT OF VIEW THAT WE DO HAVE THAT WEEKLY REPORT, I THINK IT'S GOOD INFORMATION.

I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE IN THE GOVERNANCE AND ENDS POLICY THAT IT ALLOWS THE CITY MANAGER THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMMUNICATE WITH US.

>> ONE QUESTION. BRING THAT UP. EXCUSE ME.

ON THE CITY MANAGER REPORT, FLOYD, ONE THING I DID LIKE PREVIOUSLY, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE STILL DOING IT OR NOT, WAS THE OPERATIONAL UPDATE TOO.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> I DIDN'T HEAR YOU. SAY IT AGAIN.

>> THE OPERATIONAL UPDATE.

WE HAD THE CITY MANAGER REPORT AND THEN THERE WAS A TIME PERIOD WHERE WE WERE HAVING THE OPERATIONAL UPDATE.

I DID LIKE THAT.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT FALLS IN THERE.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> ANDREW YOU CAME UP WITH THAT, DIDN'T YOU?

>> THAT WAS GOOD TO SEE, SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.

>> THAT THAT WAS USUALLY SHARED WITH JUST COUNCIL, AND CITY MANAGER, STAFF, AND ALL DIRECTORS.

>> BUT IT WAS SOME ACCOUNTABILITY THAT WE SAW THAT THINGS WERE HAPPENING WHICH I THINK WAS GREAT.

THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

>> I THINK TOO, THAT WOULD BE THE TIME FOR US AS A COUNCIL TO ASK QUESTIONS AFTER THOSE REPORTS THAT WE GET OUT.

GIVE US A COUPLE OF DAYS TO GO THROUGH.

>> YEAH.

>> I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT COULD BE AN ADDITION, IF THAT COULD JUST FALL UNDER THE CITY MANAGER REPORT, OR IF THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE A SEPARATE PIECE.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> MAYBE THAT'S UNDER THAT EXCELLENCE IN COMMUNICATIONS, KEY PERFORMANCE AREA, SAYS IT'S THE INTENT OF COUNCIL FOR THE CITY MANAGER TO PROMOTE EXCELLENCE IN COMMUNICATION BOTH INTERNALLY AND EXTERNALLY.

I KNOW THAT'S BROAD. IT'S IN THE ORGANIZATION AND OUTSIDE.

[01:55:04]

>> I WOULD TELL YOU, SO I COULD TALK ON THIS TOPIC IF I COULD.

I JUST WROTE, KEEP COUNCIL FULLY INFORMED THROUGH REGULAR WRITTEN AND VERBAL CHANNELS.

IN OTHER WORDS, I DON'T KNOW, DO WE DO WE NEED TO GET DOWN TO SAYING, WELL, IT NEEDS TO BE LIKE A WEEKLY E-MAIL OR WHATEVER, BUT CAN WE PROVIDE ENOUGH DIRECTION IF WE SAY THAT THE CITY MANAGER'S RESPONSIBILITY IS TO KEEP COUNCIL FULLY INFORMED?

>> WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S PRETTY SUBJECTIVE BECAUSE MAYBE CITY MANAGER SAYS, WELL, I THINK I DID.

WHAT'S YOUR DEFINITION OF FULLY INFORMED? WHERE I THINK IF WE PUT WEEKLY SINCE I THINK WE ALL LIKE AT LEAST THE WEEKLY WITH THE INTENT OF FULLY INFORMED BUT THAT'S A SUBJECTIVE TERM OF IT'S LIKE REASONABLE.

IT'S LIKE, WELL, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? ARE YOU OPPOSED TO SAYING WEEKLY OR DO YOU FEEL LIKE IT NEEDS TO BE MORE THAN WEEKLY? LIKE WHAT PUSH-BACK DO YOU HAVE WITH THAT?

>> I GUESS I HAVE ANY PUSH-BACK, AND AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO GO BACK TO JUDGMENT [LAUGHTER] WHICH IS HARD TO PUT DOWN HERE NOW.

I GUESS IF WE WANT TO PUT YOU KEEP COUNCIL FULLY INFORMED THROUGH WRITTEN WEEKLY AND VERBAL CHANNELS, I GUESS WE COULD ADD THAT IT NEEDS TO BE DONE ON A WEEKLY BASIS.

>> WHAT IF WE PUT AT THE MINIMUM A WEEKLY CITY MANAGER'S REPORT BECAUSE THIS IS FOR US AND FUTURE COUNCIL, BUT IF WE SAY AT LEAST WEEKLY THAT WAY IT'S NOT LIMITED, THAT WAY THEY SAY, WELL, THIS HAPPENED ON MONDAY AND I SENT IT FRIDAY SO YOU DIDN'T HEAR IT.

BECAUSE I THINK THE INTENT IS STILL GOING TO BE THERE WITH EVERY CITY MANAGER THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE GOING TO WANT COMMUNICATION, BUT WE HAVE AT LEAST THE MINIMUM OF A WEEKLY REPORT.

>> YEAH, I THINK I WOULD BE FINE WITH THAT IF WE COULD PUT THE WORDS FULLY INFORMED, AND AGAIN, I KNOW THAT'S VAGUE, BUT WE WANT TO BE FULLY INFORMED ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO US THROUGH THE WRITTEN AND VERBAL CHANNELS ON A MINIMUM OF A WEEKLY BASIS.

>> YEAH, I'M TOTALLY GOOD WITH THAT.

ONE PHRASE THAT I WAS JUST INTERESTING AND SEEMS A LITTLE DRAMATIC BUT CITY COUNCIL VALUES CITY EMPLOYEES AS EMISSARIES TO THE WORLD.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT CAME FROM.

[LAUGHTER] THAT WAS A LOT. WHERE IS THAT AT? IT'S ON PAGE 14, EMPLOYEE TRAINING AND DEVELOPMENT.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS AS EMISSARIES TO THE WORLD CAME.

THAT'S GREAT, BUT IT SEEMS A LITTLE EXCESSIVE OR SOMETHING.

I THINK THAT'S ALL I HAVE.

>> YOU FEEL LIKE IT MAY BE A LITTLE EMBELLISHED TO SAY THAT EMISSARIES TO THE WORLD? [OVERLAPPING]

>> I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY CAME FROM. [OVERLAPPING]

>> YOU WOULD LIKE YOU WOULD LIKE TO REPHRASE THAT MAYBE OR HAVE STAFF REPHRASE IT?

>> MAYBE.

>> I DON'T KNOW. JUST MAYBE THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS GOING ON AT THE TIME.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> I THINK IT WAS THAT IT WAS A SPECIFIC CONCERN AT THE TIME.

>> BUT I DO AGREE WITH COUNCILMAN CRAFT ON THE BLUEPRINT HAS GOT TO BE STRUCK AND THEN PUT OUR PILLARS IN THERE.

BUT YEAH, THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT.

>> YOU'RE UP, TOM.

>> I HAD WHAT DON HAD ON 1, 4, WE NEEDED TIME FRAME IN THERE.

1, 2, 4 WE NEEDED TIME FRAME.

LET ME SEE. THEN I PUT A TIME MAYBE ONCE A QUARTER, THAT WAS IN 1, 3, 6.

BUT THEN ONCE WE GET THIS THING SET, YOU DON'T NEED TO MEET REAL REGULAR UNLESS THERE'S A PROBLEM, IF THERE'S A PROBLEM WE CAN RECONVENE.

LET ME SEE HERE.

IN 1, 6, I PUT, AFTER READING THAT PARAGRAPH THERE, GOVERNANCE PROCESS ADVISORY BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE OF CITIZEN PARTICIPATION IN THESE BOARDS.

I'VE HEARD OF A LOT OF BOARD MEMBERS, THEIR MEETINGS ARE CANCELED DUE TO LACK OF QUORUM.

IF WE GOT PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE THE TIME, THESE COMMISSIONS OR BOARDS SHOULDN'T BE EXISTING.

IF THEY'RE NOT GOING TO MEET, THEY SHOULD MEET AS OFTEN AS THEY FEEL THEY DO.

I'M NOT TOO SURE, WE DON'T NEED TO HAVE THOSE BOARDS AND COMMISSION AT LEAST MAKE

[02:00:04]

LIKE WE MAKE REPORTS ON THE ONES WE'RE ON, I THINK THE BOARDS THAT WE AREN'T REPRESENTED ON, WE NEED REPORTS FROM, SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS.

OKAY ON THAT. I'M GOING ALONG HERE.

I WANTED TO CHANGE THAT WORD, REASONABLE, WHEREVER IT IS. I'M TRYING TO FIND IT.

>> GO TO PAGE 8. [OVERLAPPING]

>> HERE IT IS, RIGHT HERE.

>> ARE YOU ON PAGE? [OVERLAPPING]

>> IT'S ON 2, 2.

>> NUMBER 2?

>> YEAH, 2, 2, NUMBER 2.

WE NEED TO CHECK THE WORD REASONABLE OUT THERE AND FIND BETTER LANGUAGE TO USE. LET'S SEE HERE.

I HAD A NOTE HERE AND THIS WAS IN 32 A1, AND ALL OF THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT BELOW.

THAT WAS SOMETHING WE NEED TO REALLY FOCUS IN ON BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE THINGS WHERE WE'RE LACKING.

REPAIRING INFRASTRUCTURE IN A TIMELY MANNER, THAT IS A MUST.

WE'VE BEEN KICKING THESE BALLS DOWN THE ROAD.

INCREASE SERVICES WHILE FORECASTING THE NEED FOR A BENEFIT OF SUCH SERVICES.

JUST MORE AND MORE, I GUESS WE CALL IT COMMUNICATION OF WHAT WE NEED TO GET DONE. LET'S SEE.

DOWN HERE AT 32 B3, I THINK IT SAYS, FAILED TO COMPLY WITH THE CODE OF ETHICS SET FORTH BY THE INTERNATIONAL CITY MANAGERS ASSOCIATION.

I REALLY THINK WE NEED A CODE OF ETHICS FOR EVERY EMPLOYEE.

THEY NEED TO ACTUALLY KNOW, READ IT, AND SIGN IT.

I KNOW WHEN I WAS AT THE COMPANY, I HAD EVERY EMPLOYEE, UPON HIRING, READ THOSE CODE AND ETHICS AND HAD TO SIGN IT.

THAT WAY, THEY KNEW IF YOU DID THIS, YOU'RE GOING TO GET FIRED.

>> DOES IT GO THROUGH THE CODE OF CONDUCT [INAUDIBLE] HR.

>> HR'S GOT IT.

>> IS THERE A CODE OF CONDUCT AFTER?

>> I THINK THERE IS ONE IN THE ORIENTATION.

>> GOOD. THIS WAS IN 33 A1, AND I PUT IN THERE, SOMETIMES WE PLACE TOO MUCH EMPHASIS ON OTHER CITIES LIKE THE METROPLEX.

WE CAN'T COMPARE AMARILLO TO THE METROPLEX CITIES.

WE KEEP TRYING TO DO THAT, THEY'VE GOT THIS AND WE GOT THAT.

WELL, WE'RE NOT THE METROPLEX AND WE NEVER WILL BE.

IF WE GET TO THAT POINT, WE CAN ADDRESS IT AT THAT POINT IN TIME.

THAT'S JUST MY THOUGHT.

IN 331, DOWN THERE IT SAYS, PRACTICES FROM OTHER MUNICIPALITIES WILL ALWAYS HELP THE COUNCIL.

I DISAGREE WITH THE WORD ALWAYS.

JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY ELSE IS DOING IT DOESN'T MEAN, WE'VE GOT TO JUDGE IT FOR OURSELF.

IT'S NOT ALWAYS THERE.

>> WHERE DID YOU SAY THAT ONE WAS AT IN HERE?

>> THAT'S IN 33 A1.

RIGHT DOWN THERE THE LAST SENTENCE, JOSH.

THEN I'VE GOT IN FIVE IN THAT SAME AREA I JUST UNDERLINED, MONITOR CUSTOMER SATISFACTION.

THAT NEEDS TO BE A PRIORITY.

THEN DOWN IN 34 A5, I WAS READING ABOUT THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND WHAT I PUT DOWN HERE IS A NOTE, AEDC NEEDS TO WORK CLOSER WITH THE COUNCIL.

THEY COME IN AND GIVE US REPORTS, BUT I THINK THE MAYOR, DIDN'T YOU CHARGE THEM WITH COMING BACK WITH THEIR VISION AND ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF.

I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE A REGULAR TYPE OF THING.

WE'RE TOLD HERE WHAT TO DO.

I THINK THEY NEED TO BE WORKING CLOSER WITH THE COUNCIL THAT WE KNOW THEIR VISION,

[02:05:01]

>> DO YOU THINK ADDING TO NUMBER 4 WHERE IT SAYS, FOSTER A HEALTHY AND COOPERATIVE RELATIONSHIP WITH AEDC TO [INAUDIBLE] AND GOALS, MAYBE ADD BY MEETING A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME.

I THINK THAT MEETING WE HAD WAS GREAT.

>> THE MEETING THAT WE HAD WITH THEM, FANTASTIC.

IT'S LIKE THE MEETINGS THE MAYOR SET UP WITH THE ISD AND THE LAW ENFORCEMENT STUFF.

WE NEED TO HAVE MORE OF THESE MEETINGS SO THAT WE CREATE THE UNDERSTANDING THAT EVERYBODY'S ON THE SAME PAGE, SO IF WE COULD DO THAT.

WHY I GOT THIS IN THERE.

DOWN HERE AT 34B, I'VE GOT FAILED TO ABIDE BY CURRENT ADOPTED ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT POLICIES.

I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND READ THAT WHOLE PARAGRAPH THERE, BUT THAT'S WHAT I PUT DOWN.

I THINK THAT'S IT.

CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT'S ALL I HAD?

>> YOU DIDN'T CATCH THE EMISSARIES TO THE WORLD?

>> NO, I MISSED THAT.

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU MISSED THAT?

>> VERY GOOD.

COUNCILMAN SIMPSON, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ON YOUR END?

>> YES. 1.5 ON PAGE 5, NUMBER 4, I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS AND WHY IT'S IN HERE BECAUSE I DON'T THINK ANY OF US CAN DO THIS.

MAYBE THERE'S A WAY THAT WE CAN THAT SAYS MEMBERS WILL NOT INDIVIDUALLY RENDER BINDING JUDGMENTS ON THE CITY MANAGER OR STAFF PERFORMANCE APART FROM THE CLIENTS WITH COUNCIL POLICIES AS MONITORED BY THE COUNCIL AS A BODY.

INDIVIDUALLY, WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING.

I JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHY.

IS THERE SOME TYPE OF PROBLEM OR SOMETHING THAT THAT ADDRESSES?

>> BRIAN, DO YOU SEE ANY PURPOSE FOR THAT?

>> THE ONLY THING I CAN COME UP WITH IS, I'M LOOKING BACK AT THE BEGINNING OF THAT PARTICULAR PARAGRAPH, WHAT IT'S TRYING TO DRIVE HOME I THINK IS THAT THE COUNCIL-

>> WILL YOU TURN THAT ON?

>> I'M SORRY, I APOLOGIZE. IT'S JUST LIKE WHAT IT SAYS, IT'S A REMINDER THAT ONE COUNCIL PERSON ALONE REALLY HAS NO POWER TO DO ANYTHING, AND THAT COUNCIL AS A BODY, AND THE CITY CHARTER OBVIOUSLY SAYS THIS OVER AND OVER, IT REFERS TO COUNCIL.

I'M SPECULATING TO A CERTAIN EXTENT HERE, BUT I BELIEVE IT PROBABLY HAS TO DO WITH CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE IN AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS MAYBE ABOUT THE CITY MANAGER OR CERTAIN STAFF MEMBERS THAT WOULD UNDERMINE THEIR ABILITIES TO DO THEIR JOB WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER THEMSELVES, WHOEVER THAT IS.

IT'S A REMINDER TO YOU TO NOT GET INVOLVED IN THOSE PERSONNEL KIND OF THINGS UNLESS IT BECOMES A MATTER THAT COUNCIL HAS TO TAKE UP THEMSELVES IN LIGHT OF MAYBE A CHARTER PROVISION OR WITH THE CITY MANAGER.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT IT'S MEANT TO DO, BUT I'M SPECULATING TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.

>> WELL, WHEN IT GETS TO RENDER BINDING JUDGMENTS, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT.

>> THERE'S NOTHING [INAUDIBLE].

>> THERE IS NOTHING BINDING.

BINDING AND IN THAT SENSE COULD NEVER MEAN ANYTHING FORMAL.

>> I PROPOSE TAKING THAT OUT UNLESS IT SERVES SOME TYPE OF PURPOSE THAT WE SEE HERE.

>> STRIKE THAT, COUNCILMAN.

>> YES.

>> LET ME GO BACK TO 2.2, NUMBER 2.

DOES THAT EVEN NEED TO BE IN THERE?

>> I WAS GOING TO ASK TO STRIKE IT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A WAY THAT IS BETTER GOING TO DEFINE WHAT WE'VE WORKED THROUGH HERE TODAY FOR THE LAST TWO HOURS OF SETTING UP THE WAY THE RELATIONSHIP SHOULD HAPPEN.

THIS, TO ME, IS A CATCH ALL WITH THIS REASONABLE INTERPRETATION AND MAY MAKE ALL POLICIES, WHICH OBVIOUSLY, IN MY VIEW, GOES AGAINST THE CHARTER PRETTY SPECIFICALLY.

>> IS THIS ENCOMPASSED BY THE CITY MANAGER'S ROLE?

>> WELL, IF YOU LOOK AT NUMBER 1,

[02:10:01]

I'M NOT SURE THE NEED FOR NUMBER 2 IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CHARTER THAT SAYS WE HAVE ADOPTED A STRONG CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT.

I THINK WE KNOW WHAT THE POWER OF THAT ROLE IS.

>> WITH NUMBER 1 THERE AT THE VERY END, EXECUTIVE LIMITATION WITHIN THOSE POLICIES PRETTY WELL COVERS EVERYTHING IN NUMBER 2.

>> SO YOU'RE SAYING GET RID OF 2.2 COMPLETELY?

>> NO, JUST NUMBER 2 UNDER 2.2.

SO KEEP IN 1,3,4, AND 5 AT THIS TIME.

>> ON PAGE 10, NUMBER 4, WHICHEVER ONE THAT IS, IT SAYS AT A MINIMUM ANNUALLY, THE COUNCIL INSTITUTE A FORMAL EVALUATION OF THE CITY MANAGER.

THE NEXT SENTENCE SAYS, THIS EVALUATION WILL CONSIDER ONLY MONITORING DATA AS DEFINED HERE, AS IT HAS APPEARED OVER THE INTERVENING YEAR.

I'D LIKE TO STRIKE THAT LAST ONE OUT BECAUSE WHAT IF SOMETHING COMES UP THAT WE HAVE NOT IDENTIFIED THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS?

>> YOU COULD SAY THIS EVALUATION WILL CONSIDER ALL PERFORMANCE.

>> SURE.

>> WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS IT'S A PERFORMANCE EVAL AND IT'S FORMAL AND WE WANT IT IN WRITING, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

>> BUT THEN MAYBE WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO THERE WAS THEY WANTED DATA TO BACK UP THIS EVALUATION OR THEY WANTED IT IN WRITING.

BUT YEAH, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S A LIMITATION, NOT A STIPULATION.

>> I THINK ANYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THAT I GUESS THE INTERVENING YEAR, I GUESS THAT'S THE YEAR OF WHICH THE EVALUATION IS DONE, IS SAYING THE EVALUATION CAN ONLY CONSIDER THINGS THAT YOU'VE IDENTIFIED AT THE BEGINNING.

YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? WELL, WHAT IF SOMETHING HAPPENS UP THAT WE WANT TO ADDRESS THAT'S NOT ADDRESSED IN THE DATA THAT WE WANT TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK, SHOULD WE BE LIMITING OURSELVES TO THAT.

I WOULD JUST CONSIDER TAKING THAT OUT.

>> I DON'T WANT TO TAKE THIS OUT OR HAD ANY CHANGE.

I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT MEANS.

3.1B NUMBER 2, THE PHYSICAL RESPONSIBILITY THAT THE CITY MANAGERS, THEREFORE RESTRICT FROM BUDGETING OR SPENDING THAT LOWERS THAT PLEDGED REVENUES COLLECTED BY THE CITY IN THE LAST PRECEDING FISCAL YEARS, AS DETERMINED BY THE CITY TO NOT LESS THAN 1.75 TIMES THE ANNUAL PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST REQUIREMENTS ARE ON THE OUTSTANDING BONDS WITH A GOAL OF MAINTAINING TWO TIMES COVERAGE.

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, COUNCILMAN.

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> THIS IS A RESTRICTION THAT LIMITS EXECUTIVE LIMITATION SO THAT THE CITY MANAGER COULD NOT PUT IN JEOPARDY THE BOND RATING.

SO COULD WE SAY THAT MORE IN ENGLISH?

>> THAT'S REALLY NUMBER 1.

NUMBER 2 JUST GOES INTO MORE DETAIL.

>> IT PUTS THE PARAMETERS OUT THERE.

>> YEAH, AND GETS SOME PARAMETERS THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP THAT CAPACITY SO YOU'LL HAVE A GOOD INTEREST RATE.

>> I DON'T MIND LEAVING IT BECAUSE IT MEANS QUITE A BIT TO THOSE THAT UNDERSTAND IT.

[LAUGHTER]

>> I'D HATE TO STRIKE SOMETHING JUST BECAUSE OF MY IGNORANCE.

THAT COULD BE VERY INFORMATIVE.

>> I'M SPECULATING BUT IF I CAN JUST INTERJECT, IT'S AN ACCOUNTING MEASURE.

IF IT IS, THEN YOUR BOND AGENCIES ARE GOING TO LOOK AT IT TO SAY, DO YOU HAVE A POLICY IN PLACE THAT SAYS THAT? IF IT DOES, THAT HELPS.

>> YEAH.

>> THAT'S WHAT THAT LENDS ITSELF TO IN MY OPINION.

IT'S PART OF KEEPING THOSE GOOD ACCOUNTING PRACTICES IN PLACE.

BUT LIKE I SAID, I'M SPECULATING TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, BUT THAT'S THE WAY THAT READS.

>> AND SO THERE WASN'T ANYTHING ALREADY IN PLACE, THE ORDINANCE OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT COVERED THIS PARTICULAR THING? NOT THAT WE SHOULD LEAVE IT OUT.

>> POLICIES AS WELL.

>> YEAH.

>> ON PAGE 15, 3.8B INS POLICY, EXCELLENCE IN COMMUNICATION, EXECUTIVE LIMITATIONS.

IT SAYS, AS COUNCIL STRIVES TO ENSURE THE CITY IS RUN ON AN OPEN AND TRANSPARENT PLATFORM WITH EMPLOYEES AND CITIZENS, THE CITY MANAGER SHALL NOT PERMIT COUNCIL TO BE UNINFORMED OR UNSUPPORTED IN ITS WORK ON ISSUES OF SIGNIFICANT PUBLIC SAFETY,

[02:15:02]

AFTER THE WORD OF WHEN IT SAYS WORK ON ISSUES I WOULD LIKE TO CONSIDER PUT INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO BECAUSE COULD THERE BE ISSUES, AGAIN THAT WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THAT COULD FALL OUTSIDE OF PUBLIC SAFETY, FINANCIAL, LEGAL, OR POLITICAL RISK? AGAIN, I KNOW THIS IS VAGUE, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF WE'RE NOT INFORMED ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR BECAUSE WELL, IT'S NOT LISTED IN THESE FOUR, IT GOES BACK TO JUDGMENT.

BUT IS IT BETTER TO CAST A WIDER NET ON THIS THAN IT IS TO HAVE SOMETHING AND I DON'T KNOW WHY THESE FOUR ISSUES, INCLUDING POLITICAL RISK, WHICH I GUESS IS FOR COUNCIL, BUT IS IT BETTER TO HAVE A WIDER DEFINITION ON THESE THINGS OR THESE ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT UNINFORMED OR UNSUPPORTED.

>> YOU COULD PROBABLY CHANGE PUBLIC SAFETY JUST TO THE WORD OPERATIONAL AND SAY NOT LIMITED TO OPERATIONAL, FINANCIAL, LEGAL, OR POLITICAL RISK.

THAT WOULD ENCOMPASS EVERYTHING. I AGREE WITH LESSI.

>> YEAH.

>> SO DO YOU WANT TO INCLUDE THE WORD OPERATIONAL?

>> SIGNIFICANT OPERATIONAL EVEN THOUGH SIGNIFICANT IS SOMEWHAT SUBJECTIVE.

BUT I THINK YOU AND CITY MANAGER WOULD KNOW IF SOMETHING IS SIGNIFICANT OR NOT.

>> I DON'T DISAGREE WITH LESSI INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO PUBLIC SAFETY, OPERATIONAL, FINANCIAL, LEGAL, OR POLITICAL RISK.

I JUST THINK IT SPEAKS MORE TO HOW DIFFICULT THAT JOB IS.

YOU'RE RESPONSIBLE TO KEEP US INFORMED.

>> ON APPENDIX A, AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DEFINITION OF THIS IS, AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER BUT CITY COUNCIL RESPONSIBILITIES INFORM THE COMMUNITY OF CITY AFFAIRS.

JUST TO MAKE SURE, IS THAT THROUGH THE STATE OF THE CITY ADDRESS? IS IT OTHER THINGS? OF COURSE WE HAVE CITY STAFF THAT THEIR JOB IS TO HELP.

BUT I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT THE DEFINITION OF INFORM THE COMMUNITY OF CITY AFFAIRS MAY BE.

>> I WOULD THINK IT'S A COMBINATION OF THINGS, BUT STATE OF THE CITY OBVIOUSLY BEING A BIG COMPONENT OF THAT, AND THERE'S DIFFERENT AVENUES TO ACCOMPLISH THAT STATEMENT.

I THINK THAT LANDS IN [INAUDIBLE] COURT AND IF YOU WANT THAT CLARIFIED OR IF IT'S APPROPRIATE LEVEL OF DETAIL.

>> I THINK IT SPEAKS TO NUMBER 8.

LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY AND THEN INFORM THE COMMUNITY YOU'RE SAYING WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN SAID WHEN YOU SAY, GOVERN EFFECTIVELY, OR RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HEALTH OF THE COMMUNITY, ANYTHING LIKE THAT IS SUCH A BROAD STATEMENT.

I DON'T THINK IT HURTS ANYTHING TO HAVE IT IN THERE.

>> NOW, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WHAT THE DEFINITION OF THAT WAS.

IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT THIS COMMUNICATING TO THE CITY AFFAIRS IN THE CITY MANAGER'S DUTIES THERE AT THE END OF APPENDIX A?

>> IN WHAT RESPECT?

>> ALSO COMMUNICATING TO THE COMMUNITY OR IS IT ONLY US THAT COMMUNICATES TO THE CITY OR SHOULD THE CITY MANAGER AND STAFF?

>> YOU MAY BE PROPOSING CITY MANAGER TO DIRECT COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE ORGANIZATION TO THE COMMUNITY, WHICH IS WHAT WE DO THROUGH INNOVATION AND ENGAGEMENT.

ARE YOU SAYING TO FORMALIZE THAT THAT IS A CITY MANAGER RESPONSIBILITY?

>> I WOULD THINK SO.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS COMMUNICATION BEING SO CRUCIAL, NOT ONLY WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION, BETWEEN COUNCIL AND STAFF, BUT ALSO WITH THE COMMUNITY MAY BE WORTH PUTTING IN.

>> ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT, COUNCIL?

>> I THINK IT'S FINE TO INCLUDE THAT.

I KNOW IT'S COUNCIL'S RESPONSIBILITY TO TRY AND INFORM AND EQUALLY SO STAFF AND CITY MANAGER RESPONSIBILITY.

>> I WOULD HAVE ONE MORE TO CONSIDER ADDING TO THE CITY MANAGER RESPONSIBILITIES.

AGAIN, YOU HATE TO THINK ALONG THESE LINES

[02:20:01]

THERE WAS PART OF IT EARLIER TALKING ABOUT MAYOR AND COUNCIL, THAT WE SHOULDN'T BE USING OUR POWER POSITION TO CAUSE PROBLEMS AMONG CITY STAFF.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT PAGE THAT'S ON.

I JUST WONDER IN THE CITY MANAGER ROLE.

IS IT FAIR TO ASK THE CITY MANAGER TO SAY THE CITY MANAGER WILL NOT ATTEMPT TO DIVIDE OR CAUSE DIVISION AMONG COUNCIL MEMBERS?

>> I THINK IT'S FAIR.

>> CERTAINLY, AS WE SAY THAT THE CITY MANAGER'S RELATIONSHIP, AGAIN, WE'RE ALL ONE TOGETHER, BUT SHOULD NOT USE THAT POSITION OF INFLUENCE TO CAUSE DIVISION AMONG THE COUNCIL MEMBERS.

>> ARE YOU SAYING THAT THAT WOULD FALL UNDER CODE OF CONDUCT? FROM THE CITY MANAGER CODE OF CONDUCT? OR ARE YOU SAYING THAT WOULD BE A RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CITY MANAGER?

>> I JUST WROTE IT DOWN AT THE END OF THE CITY MANAGER RESPONSIBILITIES.

MAYBE IT SHOULD BE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

>> THAT'S WHAT HE SAID, HE WANTS TO ADD NUMBER 10.

>> WELL, AND I'M CURIOUS IF WE HAD THAT NUMBER 10 THERE OR IF YOU PUT IT UP UNDER THE CITY MANAGER CODE OF CONDUCT.

DO WE HAVE IT SPECIFIED SOMEWHERE ELSE THAT IT WOULD FIT BETTER OR? [OVERLAPPING]

>> EITHER WAY.

>> WE HAVE CODE OF ETHICS.

I'M FINE IF IT'S INCLUDED THERE.

NO PROBLEM WITH IT, COUNCIL? EVERYBODY GOOD WITH THAT BEING IN THERE? ANYTHING ELSE, COUNCILMAN?

>> NOTHING ELSE.

>> GOOD.

>> OKAY. MAN, I HAVE A LOT OF THE SAME THAT I THINK EVERYBODY HAD.

I APPRECIATE ALL THE FEEDBACK ON IT.

I'LL GO TO PAGE 8 WHERE NUMBER 2, I ALSO AGREE WE STRIKE OR REMOVE UNDER 2.2.

2.2, NUMBER 3, COUNCIL MEMBERS WILL RESPECT AND SUPPORT CITY MANAGER'S DECISIONS AND CHOICES WHENEVER MADE PURSUANT TO EXISTING COUNCIL POLICIES.

COUNCIL MAY CHANGE ITS INS AND EXACTS.

LIMITATIONS POLICIES SHIFTING THIS.

BY DOING SO, THE COUNCIL WILL CHANGE THE LATITUDE GIVEN TO THE CITY MANAGER.

I'M NOT SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND ANYTHING THAT'S GOING ON HERE IN NUMBER 3.

IN THE WAY IN WHICH WE'VE RIGHTLY DEFINED A RELATIONSHIP, HOW WE'RE GOING TO COMMUNICATE BACK AND FORTH, AND THEN OUR JOB IS TO HOLD STAFF ACCOUNTABLE.

I THINK THE SUPPORT FROM COUNCIL COMES IN THE POLICIES AND THE VISION THAT'S BEING CARRIED OUT, AND AN OVERALL SUPPORT OF COUNCIL TOWARDS STAFF.

I'M CURIOUS IF STAFF COULD MAYBE LET ME KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE IN THE WAY.

IF THAT WERE TO SAY CITY MANAGER WERE TO TERMINATE AN EMPLOYEE, WE WOULD SUPPORT THAT AS A BODY REGARDLESS OF WHETHER WE AGREED WITH IT.

>> I THINK THAT'S ONE VISION OF IT, MAYOR.

I THINK IT'S VERY COMPLEX.

IT'S RELATED TO ALL OUR POLICIES GLOBALLY THAT IF THE CITY MANAGER IS WITHIN THE POLICIES, THERE'S AN EXPECTATION OF RESPECTING THAT DECISION, SUPPORTING THAT DECISION.

BACK UP TO THE FIRST TWO SENTENCES, I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S JUST INFORMATION THAT IF YOU CHANGE THESE POLICIES, YOU'RE MOVING ON THAT SPECTRUM WHERE THAT LINE OF AUTHORITY OF THE CITY MANAGER IS, AND THEN THAT LAST PIECE IS JUST DEFINING THAT IF THEY'RE WITHIN WHAT YOU WROTE, THAT IT WOULD BE RESPECTED AND SUPPORTED.

THAT'S MY OPINION.

ANDREW, WOULD YOU SAY IT DIFFERENT?

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> I GUESS IF I'M ANDREW, I'M GOING TO POINT TO THAT AND SAY, GUYS, I WAS DOING EXACTLY WHAT MY POLICY SAID.

I WENT AND ACTED, AND I EXPECTED Y'ALL TO SUPPORT ME.

IT SAYS IT RIGHT HERE, COUNCIL MEMBERS WILL RESPECT AND SUPPORT, AND I WENT AND DID ALL THIS.

WE WALKED THAT OUT IN A DIFFERENT WAY WHERE WE CALLED IT IN AND SAID, HEY, WE DON'T SUPPORT THIS, WE WEREN'T ADVISED.

ONCE AGAIN, I THINK THIS IS UNCLEAR FOR SOMEBODY WALKING INTO THIS ROLE.

I LIKE ALL OF WHAT WE'VE COME THROUGH HERE ON HOW WE'RE DEFINING ALL THIS AND GETTING MORE NARROW.

BUT THEN, THESE BROAD STATEMENTS HERE, TO ME, IF I WAS IN ANDREW'S POSITION,

[02:25:02]

>> MAYOR, I FRAMED THE THIRD SENTENCE BASED OFF THE FIRST TWO.

JUST TO UNDERSTAND, AS A COUNCIL, YOU CHANGED THESE, YOU'RE MOVING THAT RULE.

BUT ONCE YOU MOVE THAT RULE AND SAID IT, YOU'RE GOING TO SUPPORT IT, THAT'S WHAT I SEE IN IT.

>> I'M GOOD WITH STRIKING NUMBER 3 UNLESS STAFF CAN TELL ME WE NEED THAT IN THERE, BECAUSE THE CHARTER DOESN'T OUTLINE IT ENOUGH.

THE CHARTER OUTLINES THIS FORM OF GOVERNMENT PRETTY WELL.

WE'RE GOING TO BRING SOME CLARITY IN HOW THE RELATIONSHIP GOES THROUGH ACCOUNTABILITY AND ALL THIS.

I WOULD MOVE TO REMOVE TWO AND THREE UNDER THAT.

>> MOVING ALONG.

>> FROM THE DIRECTION I HAD TO START WITH, YOU CAN EVALUATE THAT AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION BACK.

THAT'D BE WHERE WE'RE AT ON THAT ONE.

>> IT WOULD BE AND I WOULD APPRECIATE A RECOMMENDATION, ESPECIALLY IF THERE'S AN ERROR IN REMOVING THAT, BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO LEAVE MANAGEMENT IN A MORE UNDEFINED POSITION.

THE PURPOSE OF ALL THIS IS TO GIVE MORE DEFINITION.

>> AS I TOOK OUR ORIGINAL DIRECTION IS WE'RE TAKING THESE COMMENTS, BUT WE WOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY, IF THERE WAS SOMETHING CRITICAL LIKE THAT THAT WE COULD EXPLAIN BACK.

>> I THINK THAT EVERYTHING WE'RE STATING HERE WOULD ALL GO TO STAFF AND COME BACK WITH YOUR RECOMMENDATION.

NEXT PAGE, 2.3 NUMBER 2.

GIVEN POLICY MAY BE MONITORED IN THREE WAYS: INTERNAL REPORT, EXTERNAL REPORT, AND DIRECT COUNCIL INSPECTION.

WHAT I WOULD HOPE TO DO THERE IS TO FORMALIZE A THIRD PARTY INSPECTION PROCESS AND A VERIFICATION PROCESS.

WOULD GO AS FAR AS, UNDER MY CITY MANAGER RESPONSIBILITIES LIKE NUMBER 11 BACK THERE UNDER APPENDIX A, WOULD READ, PROVIDE VERIFICATION TO COUNCIL ON ALL INQUIRIES.

ONCE AGAIN UP HERE ON 2.3 NUMBER 2, WE SHOULD BE GETTING INTERNAL REPORTS, EXTERNAL REPORTS.

WHICH EXTERNAL REPORT WOULD BE A THIRD PARTY, AND SO I WOULD ASSUME THAT THAT COULD BE BUILT INTO THE BUDGET FOR A CERTAIN ALLOCATION EVERY YEAR, AND IF WE HAD CERTAIN INQUIRIES, WE WOULD ALWAYS HAVE THE ABILITY, STAFF WOULD, TO PROVIDE VERIFICATION ON ALL INQUIRIES FROM ANY COUNCIL MEMBER WITHOUT IT BEING DIRECTED.

>> LET ME CLARIFY.

YOU'RE ASKING FOR US TO LOOK AT IMPLEMENTING A EXTERNAL EVALUATION OF THE CITY MANAGER ANNUALLY?

>> NO, NOT AN EVALUATION OF THE CITY MANAGER.

YOU'RE READING THIS UNDER, MONITORING EXECUTIVE PERFORMANCE, RIGHT?

>> I WENT BACK TO THE HEADING AND I APPLIED THAT.

>> I'M LOOKING AT THIS ORGANIZATIONALLY.

IS THIS DEFINING VERIFICATION? IF SO, SHOULD WE MORE STRICTLY INTERPRET HOW WE CAN DO THAT THROUGH A THIRD PARTY VERIFICATION SOURCE? BECAUSE IT SAYS EXTERNAL REPORT.

>> NO. THE PARAMETERS THAT YOU'RE EVALUATING THROUGH A THIRD PARTY PROVIDED TO YOU.

>> DISCOVERY OF COMPLIANCE INFORMATION BY AN OBJECTIVE PARTY WHO IS SELECTED BY AND REPORTS DIRECTLY TO THE COUNCIL.

YOU DON'T HAVE THAT SET UP, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

>> IT'S IN MY GOVERNANCE AND ANS POLICIES BUT ANY COUNCIL MEMBER CANNOT ACCESS THAT CURRENTLY, BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN THE BUDGET.

HOW DO WE GET THAT VERIFICATION BUILT INTO THESE GOVERNANCE AND ANS DOCUMENTS?

>> IT HAS TO BE SUPPORTED BY BUDGET.

>> KEEP IN MIND THIS SECTION IS SPECIFICALLY TO EXECUTIVE PERFORMANCE.

>> YES. THAT'S WHY MY QUESTIONS WERE THAT AWAY.

>> I AGREE THAT THIS MAY NOT BE THE RIGHT SECTION FOR THIS.

IF WE PUT IT ON A PROVIDE VERIFICATION TO COUNCIL ON ALL INQUIRIES, NUMBER 11 UNDER CITY MANAGER RESPONSIBILITIES.

DOES THAT GIVE ENOUGH?

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ADDING IT TO THE APPENDIX?

>> YES, SIR. APPENDIX?

>> YES. LESSI HAD ADDED AT 10.

SO YOU WANT TO ADD ON 11?

>> YES, SIR.

>> I THINK THAT'S MORE APPROPRIATE TO PUT IT THERE, IF THE COUNCIL WISHES TO HAVE THAT.

>> CAN YOU SAY THAT ONE MORE TIME, MAYOR.

I WAS TYPING

>> I JUST PUT NUMBER 11, PROVIDE VERIFICATION TO COUNCIL ON ALL INQUIRIES, AND THAT CAN DEFINITELY BE WORDED DIFFERENTLY.

YOU MAY WANT IT LESS GENERAL.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU GUYS. MOVING ALONG TO PAGE 11.

THAT IS OUR VISION.

I'M DEFINITELY GOING TO WORK ON ALL OF THAT.

STRATEGIC VISIONING DOCUMENT.

COVERED THAT ONE, COVERED THAT ONE.

[02:30:07]

I THINK I MAY BE DONE.

LET ME FLIP A FEW MORE PAGES.

COUNCIL RESPONSIBILITIES GO TO APPENDIX A, THIRD PAGE FROM THE END.

SUPPORT ALL DECISIONS OF THE CITY COUNCIL, ALTHOUGH AN INDIVIDUAL MEMBER MAY BE ON THE MINORITY SIDE OF THE OUTCOME.

WORK TOWARDS CONSENSUS ON EVERY ISSUE, SUPPORT AND ACCURATELY REPRESENT THE POLICIES OF THE CITY WHEN ACTING IN THEIR OFFICIAL CAPACITY, PRESENT THEIR INDIVIDUAL OPINION ON AN ISSUE OUTSIDE OF CITY MEETINGS IF THEY EXPLICITLY STATE THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE CITY COUNCIL OR THE CITY.

COUNCIL, DO YOU ALL HAVE ISSUES WITH NUMBER THREE THERE IN THE WAY IN WHICH YOU MAY BE ASKED TO GO ON CAMERA RIGHT AFTER YOU VOTED AGAINST SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE PRINCIPALLY AGAINST AND YOU'RE BEING ASKED TO SUPPORT IT.

WHICH AS A CITIZEN I WOULD SEE THAT IN A POOR LIGHT.

SO I WOULD EXPECT COUNCIL TO STAND BESIDE THEIR CONVICTION AND MAINTAIN THEIR OPINION IN A RESPECTFUL WAY, NOT TO THEN FLIP YOUR OPINION OVER TO A SUPPORTIVE POSITION BECAUSE I HAVE TO.

WELL, I LOST, SO I HAVE TO.

SO NOW I'M IN SUPPORT OF IT.

SO SHOULD WE STRIKE ALL OF THREE? WOULD YOU LIKE TO REDEFINE IT IN THE WAY OF, IN THE EVENT THAT YOU'RE A MINORITY COUNCIL MEMBER ON ANY GIVEN ISSUE, YOU WILL RESPECT, BUT ABLE TO MAINTAIN YOUR CONVICTION IN A RESPECTFUL MANNER.

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE WORD SUPPORT ALL DECISIONS OF THE CITY COUNCIL MEANS THAT YOU GIVE UP YOUR OPINION.

>> RIGHT.

>> I THINK IT'S MORE LIKE WE'RE GOING TO PRESENT A UNITED FRONT EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T AGREE WITH 4,1 OR 3, 2.

I WAS ON THAT SIDE.

I'M STILL GOING TO SUPPORT COUNCIL BECAUSE THIS IS THE WAY OUR SYSTEM IS SET UP.

THEY VOTED.

I MAY NOT AGREE WITH IT, BUT I'M GOING TO SUPPORT IT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT COUNCIL DECISION IS.

I DON'T THINK THAT MEANS YOU VACATE YOUR PRINCIPLES OR YOUR OPINION ON THE MATTER.

I THINK IT JUST MEANS YOU'RE GOING TO SUPPORT.

YOU'RE PRESENTING A UNITED FRONT.

>> OKAY. SO MAYBE NUMBER THREE READS, SUPPORT ALL DECISIONS MADE BY THE BODY OF CITY COUNCIL WHILE MAINTAINING A RESPECTFUL INDIVIDUAL POSITION ON ANY GIVEN SUBJECT.

>> YEAH.

>> AND THEN WORK TOWARDS CONSENSUS ON EVERY ISSUE, FINE.

SUPPORT AND ACCURATELY REPRESENT POLICIES, THAT'S ON OFFICIAL CAPACITY FOR SURE.

DO YOU LIKE HAVING TO STATE THAT IT IS YOUR INDIVIDUAL OPINION VERSUS SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF COUNCIL?

>> I THINK WE DO THAT ANYWAY.

>> I THINK WE DO A PRETTY GOOD JOB ALREADY.

>> YEAH, WE'RE ONE OF FIVE.

I MEAN, NOBODY CAN SPEAK FOR COUNCIL.

>> OKAY. I THINK THAT WAS ALL OF MINE.

SO APPRECIATE THE DISCUSSION. YES.

>> MR. MAYOR, WE MIGHT WANT TO CLASSIFY WHEN DOES ADVISE AND CONSENT TAKE PLACE OR WHERE DOES ADVISE AND CONSENT TAKE PLACE.

I MEAN, IS THAT IN EXECUTIVE SESSION? WHERE DOES THAT ACTUALLY TAKE PLACE? I THINK WE NEED TO KNOW THAT PARTICULAR.

I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF IT STATES IT ANYWHERE, BUT THERE'S GOT TO BE A PLACE THAT ADVISE AND CONSENT SHOULD BE PLACED THAT WE PUT ON THE CITY MANAGER.

>> FLOYD, DO YOU HAVE A DIRECTION ON THAT WHERE YOU FEEL LIKE IT'S APPROPRIATE TO LIMIT THE WAY THAT THAT WOULD BE OBTAINED?

>> WELL, ON THAT QUESTION I GO BACK TO MICK'S MEMO ON THE TOPIC.

AND WHERE DO YOU WANT TO BE ON THAT SPECTRUM THAT IS DESCRIBED IN MICK'S MEMO? I THINK IT'S VERY CHALLENGING TO WRITE A RULE THAT SAYS, HERE'S THE LINE BECAUSE THERE'S A DIFFERENCE IN

[02:35:01]

I THINK IN Y'ALL'S OPINION, I'VE GOT SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU ON THAT TOPIC.

DO YOU SEE THE FORUM AS A MECHANISM TO GET THAT APPROVAL OF ADVICE AND CONSENT? OR DO YOU SEE THAT AS SOMETHING OTHER THAN THAT? TYPICALLY A LOT OF TIMES WE COME TO A DISCUSSION ITEM AT YOUR REGULAR COUNCIL MEETINGS FOR ADVICE AND CONSENT OR DIRECTION FORWARD, SOMETIMES WE SAY IT IN THAT MANNER, AND THEN ULTIMATELY IT COMES BACK.

I NEED TO UNDERSTAND Y'ALL'S VISION OF WHAT YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THAT TO HELP DRAFT THAT AND GET THROUGH MICK, THROUGH THIS AND THROUGH THE ATTORNEYS, WHERE THAT IS A GOOD SOLID LINE.

BECAUSE IF YOU DEFINE THAT VERY STRICTLY, WHY DO YOU NEED ME? THAT'S MY CHALLENGE TO YOU.

IF YOU SAY I HAVE TO ADVISE AND CONSENT ON EVERY ACTION, THEN YOU CAN SAVE THE TAXPAYERS MONEY.

YOU DON'T NEED A CITY MANAGER.

BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT FORM OF GOVERNMENT AND THAT GOES TO THE CHARTER.

THAT QUESTION, I THINK MORE ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT MICK WROTE WITH JUDGMENT AND THAT ACCOUNTABILITY COMES IN THE EVALUATION COMPONENT OF THE CITY MANAGER.

SO, WHERE ARE WE AT ON THAT? IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT LINE TO DRAW.

I MEAN, MY RESPONSIBILITY IS TO HELP YOU IDENTIFY YOUR GOALS AND OBJECTIVES IN THIS.

TO SET IT WHERE Y'ALL WANT IT, WITHIN A REASONABLE FRAMEWORK THAT THE ORGANIZATION IS NOT HAND STRONG IN BEING ABLE TO PERFORM.

WHEN I READ MICK'S I GET TO WHERE, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ADVISE AND CONSENT AS WE TALKED EARLIER ONLY TO THOSE THAT DIRECTLY REPORT TO THE CITY MANAGER, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M TAKING IT.

SO, I'M STARTING TO GET THAT DEFINED SUCH THAT I THINK THAT, DO Y'ALL WANT A FORMAL PROCESS IN THAT AT ALL TIMES OR ARE THERE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE YOU WOULD WANT SOMETHING BACK TO THE EARLIER DISCUSSION? A FORMAL PROCESS WOULD LOOK LIKE A DISCUSSION ITEM AND THEN Y'A'LL ACTUALLY A RESOLUTION OR A VOTING ACTION.

HOW FORMAL DO YOU WANT THAT? BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S ITEMS IN THERE WHERE A DISCUSSION ITEM IN A COUNCIL MEETING IS ADEQUATE.

>> YEAH. I THINK THE WAY I LOOK AT IT ANYWAYS, IS I THINK IF WE SPLIT IT UP INTO TWO, WE HAVE HOW DO YOU OBTAIN THE ADVISE AND CONSENT AND WHAT IS THE ADVISE AND CONSENT? I KNOW FOR ME I CAN ANSWER HOW I WOULD PREFER TO GIVE IT WOULD BE IN A PUBLIC IN A PUBLIC FORUM.

WHETHER THAT'S ON THE MESSAGE BOARD OR AS A DISCUSSION ITEM ON THE DICE.

IF YOU'RE COMING UP AND YOU NEED DIRECTION ON ITEM, I THINK THAT IS HOW YOU GET THE ADVISE AND CONSENT.

AS FAR AS THE AMOUNT, I GUESS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE, IN MY OPINION A MAJORITY OF THE COUNCIL OR BUT WHAT I WANT TO AVOID IS SAY THAT YOU GO TO ALL FIVE OF US INDIVIDUALLY AND THERE IS A COUNCIL MEMBER THAT HAS SOME CONCERNS OR DISAGREED WITH SOMETHING, I WOULD WANT TO HEAR THAT, I THINK THAT'S A VALID FOR ME BECAUSE IF ON THE BACK END I'M HERE AND IF I GO TO YOU FLOYD, I'M LIKE, HEY, I'M GOOD WITH IT BUT WHAT DOES THE REST OF COUNCIL THINK?

>> ALONG THOSE LINES, MY DESCRIPTION OF THAT AND MY UNDERSTANDING THE CHARTER WAS WRITTEN IN 2013.

THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

YOU HAD THIS THING WRITTEN FOR ADVISE AND CONSENT, WHERE THAT PROBABLY COULD HAVE OCCURRED WHERE YOU HAVE A DISCUSSION, THE CITY MANAGER COULD HAVE A DISCUSSION TO GET THAT ADVISE AND CONSENT.

WE HAVE TO LAND THAT IN PARAMETERS WITH STATE LAW TOO.

THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT IMPACTS THAT A LOT.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHANGES FROM HOW, WHEN, PRIOR TO THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, THAT THERE WAS A MECHANISM OUT THERE TO GET ADVICE AND CONSENT FROM MOST COUNCIL MEMBERS AND CITY MANAGER RELATIONSHIP THAT WORKED ON CERTAIN TOPICS.

WHEN THE OPEN MEETING ACT CAME INTO PLAY, IT CHANGED THAT DYNAMIC AND YOUR CHARTER IS STILL WRITTEN THAT AWAY.

TO ME WHAT I JUST HEARD IS YOU WANT TO MORE IN FORMAL PROCESS, YOU WANT IT AT THAT DIRECT REPORT, THE CITY MANAGER UP BELOW THAT, YOU WANT THE CITY MANAGER FUNCTIONING WITHIN HOW WE WERE.

THAT'S WHAT I JUST HEARD.

[02:40:02]

>> REPEAT THAT AGAIN.

>> THAT YOU WANT A MORE FORMAL PROCESS FOR THE CITY MANAGER AND THE DIRECT REPORTS THAT LEVEL UP IN THE ORGANIZATION.

IF YOU GO TO THE BACK PAGE, THE ORGANIZATIONAL CHART, YOU HAVE A CITY MANAGER AND YOU HAVE IN DIRECT REPORTS.

THERE WOULD BE A FORMAL PROCESS WHERE YOU COME ACTUALLY TO A WORK SESSION TO DISCUSS IT AND A VOTE.

>> WHAT I'M SAYING IS ANYTIME YOU NEED ADVICE AND CONSENT, I WOULD RATHER GIVE IT THE ADVICE AND CONSENT IN A PUBLIC FORUM.

THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. I THINK THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT TOPIC WAS WHAT ITEMS DO YOU NEED ADVICE AND CONSENT ON? THAT'S WHAT I DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER FOR.

>> IF I COULD WEIGH IN ON THAT, THERE'S A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT I THINK ARE VERY HELPFUL FOR US, WITH THE CITY MANAGER ASKING HIMSELF THIS QUESTION OF DOES ALL OF COUNCIL HAVE ALL OF THE INFORMATION? IN THE EVENT THAT YOU ARE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD WITHOUT ADVISEMENT AND CONSENT.

IT'S IN YOUR ROLE IF YOU CAN ASK YOURSELF THE QUESTION.

ALL OF MY COUNCIL HAS ALL OF THE INFORMATION.

THERE'S NOT A COUNCIL MEMBER THAT'S GOING TO COME OUT AND SAY, WHOA, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

THEN, DO I HAVE A CLEAR POSITION ON THIS ISSUE FROM EACH SO THAT, AT THE POINT WHERE MAN COLE IS GOING TO COME OUT AND BE LIKE, I DON'T LIKE THIS AT ALL.

YOU'VE COUNTED THE COST, YOU'VE WEIGHED THAT, AND YOU NOW HAVE USED THAT JUDGMENT OF I KNOW IT GOES AGAINST ONE OF MY COUNCIL MEMBERS, OR I KNOW IT GOES AGAINST WHAT THE MAYOR WANTED.

BUT THIS IS MY JOB AND I'VE GOT TO DO MY JOB.

THEN YOU'VE WEIGHED THAT COST AND THAT IS YOUR JUDGMENT.

THAT'S WHY WE ARE HIRING THAT POSITION SO CAREFULLY BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WEIGH THOSE COSTS.

IF YOU'RE ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS BEFORE MOVING FORWARD WITHOUT ADVICE AND CONSENT.

NOW, IF YOU CAN'T ANSWER BOTH THOSE QUESTIONS COMFORTABLY, WHY NOT PUT IT ON THE MESSAGE BOARD.

WHY NOT GET A PUBLIC FORUM? WHY NOT BRING IT OUT? BECAUSE I MAY HAVE SOMETHING I WANT TO SAY.

POLITICALLY, ANY OF US ARE BEING LIMITED ON OUR ABILITY TO AFFECT THE OTHER ONES.

IF WE DON'T KNOW THE STATUS OF ANY GIVEN ISSUE, IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT COMES TO US, WELL, MAYBE DON AND I DO AGREE.

I JUST DIDN'T UNDERSTAND HIS POSITION WELL ENOUGH.

YOU'RE GIVING US THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE A BETTER ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE IN THAT FORM.

>> ONE QUESTION THAT COMES TO MIND IN WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED.

BASICALLY, IF A CITY MANAGER, AMARILLO, HAS ONE COUNCIL MEMBER WHO DISAGREES, WE HAVE TO GO OTHER STEPS MORE FORMAL.

>> I THINK THAT'S THE JUDGMENT PART.

ONCE AGAIN, AS THE CITY MANAGER, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE A JUDGMENT.

YOU KNOW, THE MAYOR DOESN'T LIKE IT, BUT YOU KNOW ALL OTHER FOUR INDIVIDUALS AND YOU BELIEVE IT TO BE BEST FOR THE ORGANIZATION.

YOU THEN ARE CHOOSING WHETHER YOU WANT TO DO THIS WITHOUT A FORMAL ADVISEMENT AND CONSENT OR WHETHER YOU WANT TO.

BUT ONCE AGAIN, ALL OF US HAVE ALL CURRENT INFORMATION THAT STAFF HAS AND EACH OTHER HAS, AND THEN YOU KNEW OUR POSITIONS AHEAD OF TIME.

I'M NOT SAYING YOU CAN'T MOVE BECAUSE THERE'S A POINT WHERE THAT CITY MANAGER NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO DO HIS JOB AND HAVE THE LATITUDE.

THEN YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THAT COUNCIL MEMBER AND SAY, LOOK, THIS IS WHAT'S BEST AND THIS IS WHY YOU HIRED ME.

I JUST THINK IF WE HAVE THOSE CONDITIONS MET PRIOR TO THAT, IT WILL PREVENT US FROM THE LIMBO OF WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW YOU WANTED TO KNOW THAT.

>> I THINK THERE'S A HUGE CHALLENGE IN WRITING THAT DEFINITION.

BRIAN, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WE'LL SEE WHAT WE CAN DO THEN.

>> WELL, I WROTE IT DOWN RIGHT HERE.

I UNDERSTAND THE ENCUMBRANCES OF IT.

>> WE'LL GIVE IT OUR BEST SHOT.

>> APPRECIATE THAT.

ANYTHING ELSE FROM COUNCIL OR STAFF ON THIS GUY TODAY?

>> I AM NOT COMFORTABLE WITH TRYING TO COME TO CONSENSUS, TO SIGNIFICANT DECISIONS ON THE FORUM, MAYBE THERE'S SOME MINOR THINGS THAT WE COULD COME TO A DECISION TO, THE FORUM DOES NOT NECESSARILY ALLOW THE SAME LEVEL OF COMMUNICATION.

NOR EVEN THOUGH THE PUBLIC CAN READ IT AND THEY CAN TAKE THE TIME TO MAYBE CALL US, THERE'S NO PUBLIC INPUT ON THAT FORUM.

I MEAN, THE PUBLIC INPUT WOULD HAVE TO COME IN OUR MEETING.

I WOULD JUST BE REALLY HESITANT.

I MEAN, WE CAN USE IT MAYBE IF THERE'S SOME MINOR THING OR WHATEVER, BUT I JUST WOULDN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE OF MAKING A SIGNIFICANT DECISION USING THE FORUM TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

THEN THE OTHER THING IS GOING BACK TO THE ADVICE AND CONSENT OF WHAT THE CHARTER SAID BACK IN 1913.

IT SAYS, AND AGAIN, MAYBE THERE WERE JUST A FEW, BUT I IMAGINE WE HAD.

BUT THE WAY THAT WE ORGANIZATIONALLY STRUCTURE THE CITY HAS CHANGED FROM THAT POINT.

[02:45:05]

THE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGERS ARE REALLY NOT DIRECTLY MANAGING THOSE DEPARTMENTS, THEY'RE MANAGING PEOPLE THAT DO.

MY THOUGHT WOULD BE A CONSIDERATION IF WE'RE GOING BY THE CHARTER AND WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED.

BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU COULD SAY, WELL, IF A CITY MANAGER HIRES ONE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, THEN THE CITY COUNCIL HAS NO ADVICE AND CONSENT ON ANY OF THE OTHER MANAGEMENT POSITIONS THAT PEOPLE.

IF THIS WAS IN HERE TO SAY WE WANT TO HAVE ADVICE ON CONSENT ON PEOPLE MANAGING THE DEPARTMENTS OF THE CITY, WOULD THAT INCLUDE NOT JUST ASSISTANT CITY MANAGERS, BUT THOSE THAT FALL RIGHT UNDERNEATH THEM THAT ARE MAKING DECISIONS.

>> IN THE DOCUMENT PROVIDED, WHAT I JUST HEARD IS THAT WOULD APPLY TO ALL EVERYBODY ON THIS PAGE.

>> AGAIN, I'M JUST GOING BACK TO WHAT WAS THE INTENTION OF THE CHARTER FOR OUR ROLE AND RESPONSIBILITY OF THIS.

>> WELL, IT IS VERY CHALLENGING FOR ANY OF US TO KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THAT INTENTION WAS, ADVISE AND CONSENT, AT THAT LEVEL.

YES, WE ARE MUCH SMALLER ORGANIZATIONS, SO YOU FUNCTIONED LIKE A SMALLER ORGANIZATION.

THIS IS A COMPONENT OF ORGANIZATIONAL BEHAVIOR.

AS YOU GROW YOUR CITY TO DIFFERENT LEVELS, THERE'S NO WAY THE STRUCTURE WAS AT THIS LEVEL, PUBLIC WORKS, WATER ALL OF THAT.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN OWN THE WATER SYSTEM UNTIL 1927.

SO THERE WAS A WHOLE DIFFERENT COMPONENT OF HOW THE CITY WAS STRUCTURED AT THE TIME.

I'M ASSUMING FOCUSED ON PUBLIC SAFETY.

YOU WOULD HAVE HAD PROBABLY COUNCIL INPUT ON FIRE POLICE AND SOME OF THOSE, BUT I'M NOT SURE ON THIS.

IF YOU NEED THAT INTO WEEK OR,

>> CAN I INTERJECT SOMETHING REAL QUICK?

>> YES.

>> I UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT AND I UNDERSTAND HOW THE CHECKS AND BALANCES SIDE FROM YOU AND THAT PERSPECTIVE CAN FEEL LIKE, WELL, WE'RE NOT REALLY GOING TO HAVE A CHECK AND BALANCE WELL.

I JUST WANT TO PROPERLY BALANCE THAT AND WEIGH IT WITH HOW WOULD YOU AFFECT IT IN A PRACTICAL WAY.

MEANING, IF YOU WERE TO BE ADVISED AND CONSENTED ON A HIRING OF ANIMAL MANAGEMENT DIRECTOR, THAT YOU SIT ON THE BOARD OF, READING THOSE RESUMES AND GOING THROUGH IT, YOU STILL WOULD NOT PROPERLY AFFECT THAT POSITION AS ONE INDIVIDUAL COUNCIL MEMBER.

THEN THE OTHER FOUR OF US AREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO AFFECT IT.

AT THAT POINT I FEEL LIKE EVEN IF I WAS GIVEN THAT LATITUDE TO REACH DOWN TO THAT DIRECTOR LEVEL, I CAN'T IMPACT IT IN A POSITIVE WAY.

I'M NOT GOING TO KNOW ENOUGH AND I DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO GO AND INTERVIEW, OR SIT IN THE INTERVIEW PROCESS OR GO THROUGH THE DOCUMENTS.

IF YOU MOVE IT TO THAT LEVEL, I JUST WANT TO KNOW PRACTICALLY HOW WOULD YOU SEE THAT?

>> WELL, AGAIN, I'M JUST GOING BACK TO WHAT DOES THE CHARTER SAY? WHAT WAS THE INTENTION OF THE CHARTER? AGAIN, THESE POSITIONS WERE NOT THERE.

WHAT IS OUR ROLE AND RESPONSIBILITY ON BEHALF OF THE CITIZENS? WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH ALL THE PREP WORK THAT'S DONE FOR A CITY MANAGER CANDIDATE, EVEN THOUGH THAT'S AWARE WE'RE NOT GOING THROUGH ALL THAT WORK.

I'M JUST SAYING IT SAYS THAT THE CITY MANAGER SHOULD GET OUR ADVICE AND CONSENT.

I'M NOT THINKING THAT MEANS, WELL, YOU'VE GOT TO SIT IN ON ALL THE INTERVIEWS AND YOU DO EVERYTHING.

THE QUESTION IS, SHOULD A MAYOR AND COUNCIL AT LEAST HAVE THEIR ADVICE AND CONSENT ON THE POLICE CHIEF? IS THAT AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE COMMUNITY THAT WE WOULD BE ADVISED AND KNOWING WHO WE'RE GOING TO HIRE AS A POLICE CHIEF, OR A FIRE CHIEF OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OR IS THAT SOMETHING FROM THIS SAYS, WELL, THAT'S REALLY NOT WHAT THE COUNCIL IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, ACCORDING TO THE CHARTER.

>> I DO KNOW THAT HISTORICALLY, THERE'S BEEN MANY ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURES WHERE THE FIRE AND POLICE CHIEF REPORT DIRECTLY TO THE CITY MANAGER.

SO IT IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM SOME PREVIOUS IN THAT MANNER.

>> I THINK IF YOU POINT TO THE POLICE CHIEF OR THE FIRE CHIEF, I THINK THAT IS WHERE THAT MAKES SENSE.

BUT THEN I THINK YOU HAVE A TON OF OTHER POSITIONS AND DIRECTORS WHERE I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT REACH IS GOING TO BE AS BENEFICIAL AS WE COULD OUTLINE IT.

I'M JUST WEIGHING AND BALANCING THE COST THERE

[02:50:03]

WE NOW HAVE TO FOLLOW STRICTLY THIS POLICY OR ELSE WE'RE NOT COMPLYING WITH IT.

SO I JUST DON'T WANT THE BUREAUCRATIC GOVERNMENTAL SLOW ROLL ON EVERY HIRE.

THIS IS THE CHECK AND BALANCE OF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT A PERSON IN THAT POSITION THAT YOU FEEL STRONGLY, CAN USE THAT JUDGMENT AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A REACH TO THAT NEXT LEVEL.

I FOR FOR ONE I'M COMFORTABLE AT THAT POINT.

I THINK TO TRY TO GO BELOW THAT GETS US OUT OF THAT BUSINESS MODEL.

YOU'RE NOT A BOARD OF DIRECTOR AT THAT POINT, YOU'RE ONE OF THE MANAGING DIRECTORS OF A COMPANY, AND I DON'T WANT TO BE A MANAGING DIRECTOR OF THE COMPANY, I WANT TO TRY TO FULFILL THAT BOARD ROLE.

SO I DO SEE IT DIFFERENTLY WITH THE POLICE CHIEF AND THE FIRE CHIEF, BUT ONCE AGAIN, THAT'S THE WAY THE STRUCTURE HAS BEEN SET UP UNDER CURRENT CITY MANAGERS.

I ALSO SEE THE CITY ATTORNEY, CITY SECRETARY DIFFERENTLY.

FOR THIS DISCUSSION GOVERNANCE AND ENDS THOUGH, WOULD IT BE BENEFICIAL TO LET STAFF BRING BACK A RECOMMENDATION THAT'S CLEAR IN THE CHECKS AND BALANCES SIDE BECAUSE MAYBE THAT ALLEVIATES SOME OF THE RISK IN NOT BEING ABLE TO OVERSEE SOME OF THOSE LOWER DEPARTMENTS.

DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD HELP?

>> WE CAN EVALUATE AND BRING BACK RECOMMENDATIONS ON ANY OF THIS.

IT IS A VERY CHALLENGING THING JUST BASED OFF, OUR PARAMETERS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS WE'RE DOING IT BASED OFF THE ORGANIZATIONAL CHARTER AND JUST DRAWING A LINE AND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS INDIVIDUALLY IDENTIFYING AREAS WHERE ADVICE AND CONSENT WOULD APPLY OUTSIDE OF THAT LINE.

I DO THINK THAT THERE'S A DIFFERENCE IN INDIVIDUAL POSITIONS RELATED TO THAT.

TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE COMFORT, WE TYPICALLY DON'T HAVE A SINGLE INTERVIEW PROCESS NO MATTER WHAT THE POSITION.

TYPICALLY THERE'S AT LEAST 2-3 PEOPLE INTERVIEW EVERY CANDIDATE SO WE'RE GETTING DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION ON TYPICALLY ALL OF THESE HIRES OF THESE POSITIONS ON THAT ORG CHART.

WE DO A LITTLE BIT OF THAT INTERNALLY AND STAFF TO GET DIFFERENT VIEWS TO MAKE SURE WHERE WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THAT, WE DO THAT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE A DIVERSE VIEW OF THE HIRING PROCESS AND LOOK AT ALL FACTORS RELATED TO THAT.

BUT ADVICE AND CONSENT AGAIN, NOT UNDERSTANDING CLEARLY THE DEFINITION OF WHAT THAT IS, IT'S HARD TO SAY YES, IT APPLIES HERE AND THERE SO IT'S BOTH TOPICS AS WE GET THERE.

WHAT IS THAT ADVICE AND CONSENT, WE CLARIFIED MORE IN A PUBLIC FORUM ON SOMETHING CRITICAL AND THAT'S A JUDGMENT SO THAT HELPS.

THAT WOULD PUT IT IN THE REALM OF MORE JUDGMENT RELATED TO FIRE AND POLICE OR IS HR DIRECTOR LESS CRITICAL TO YOUR SUCCESS? UTILITIES DIRECTOR, YOU HAVE THAT DISCUSSION ONCE YOU GET INTO THAT REALM.

WHEN A COUNCIL CHANGES THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF THAT WOULD CHANGE A LITTLE BIT DEPENDING ON A CRITICAL NEED THAT THEY IDENTIFY.

>> JUST TO WORK THOUGH WITH THIS COUNCIL, WOULD IT BE SUITABLE FOR STAFF TO REVIEW THE REQUEST OF LET'S DELINEATE IT ON THE REACH OF COUNCIL, DOWN TO ASSISTANT CITY MANAGERS, CITY SECRETARY, CITY ATTORNEY, WOULD YOU WEIGH IN ON ADDING POLICE AND FIRE, NOT CHANGING THE STRUCTURE.

BUT JUST BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE CHIEFS OF PUBLIC SAFETY, WHICH IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE A NUMBER 1 COMPONENT OF ANY MUNICIPALITY AND SERVICE.

COULD YOU STOP AT THAT POINT AND JUST DON'T LIMIT YOUR AUTHORITY AS A CITY MANAGER, JUST MEANS A DISCUSSION WOULD BE HAD BEFORE THAT POSITION IS FILLED.

>> WE CAN WEIGH IN ON THAT AND GIVE YOU SOME FEEDBACK ON THAT.

>> IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ME TO DO?

>> I'M GOOD WITH THAT. WHERE WOULD YOU SIT ON THAT?

>> I THINK SO. AGAIN, NOT TO GO BACK TO THE CHARTER, BUT I GO BACK TO THE CHARTER TO MAKE SURE AND IT'S NOT THAT I'M TRYING TO CHANGE THINGS AND WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO HOLD THEM UP.

BUT WHAT WAS THE ORIGINAL INTENTION OF THIS? IS IT OUR ROLE AND RESPONSIBILITY? BECAUSE I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER OUR ROLE AND RESPONSIBILITY IS, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING.

IT SEEMS THAT BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH THE CHARTER HAS STAYED THE SAME BUT TO ME, THE PRINCIPLE HAS NOT CHANGED THE CHARTER.

IT'S JUST WHERE DOES THAT LIE? FOR ME, I WOULD THINK IF I WERE CITY MANAGER AND LOOKING AT HIRING ANY DEPARTMENT HEAD,

[02:55:05]

BUT NOW WE'RE GETTING INTO RULES AND REGULATIONS BECAUSE APPARENTLY WE NEED SOMETHING IN VERY BLACK AND WHITE THAT SAYS, HERE'S HOW THIS IS GOING TO OPERATE.

MY QUESTION IS JUST GOING BACK, IF WE FEEL LIKE THESE POSITIONS, IT'S JUST THAT THE ORIGINAL CHARTER ONLY MEANT EVEN THOUGH I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY POSITIONS WE HAD AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHEN THE LAST TIME THIS PART WAS REVISED, IF IT'S NOT BEEN REVISED SINCE 1913.

BUT WHATEVER THAT POINT IS, IF THERE WERE LIKE THREE PEOPLE REPORTING TO THE CITY MANAGER, AND THAT'S IT, BUT THE ORGANIZATION STRUCTURE HAS CHANGED.

DOES THAT CHANGE THE ROLE AND RESPONSIBILITY OF COUNCIL?

>> YES. WE CAN VERY MUCH WAIT ON THAT AND PROVIDE YOU THAT FEEDBACK.

>> LET'S GET A GOOD RESPONSE FROM STAFF.

LET YOU GUYS DO SOME WORK ON A DRAFT.

COUNCIL, WHEN WOULD WE LIKE TO DO A FOLLOW UP ON THIS ONE? ARE WE GOOD TILL MAY, AND WE BRING A CONSULTANT IN TO FINALIZE THIS, GET A SECOND SET OF EYES ON IT, ALSO WORK ON OUR VISION STATEMENT? DOES THAT GIVE STAFF ENOUGH TIME?

>> YEAH. I THINK.

>> SAY SIX WEEKS.

>> WE'RE ON THE INTERNAL SIDE AND BUDGET AT THAT POINT, SO I THINK MAY IS A GOOD TIME.

>> LET'S SHOOT FOR MAY.

MAYBE BETWEEN THE SECOND AND FOURTH.

IF WE'RE HITTING THOSE TWO, WE DO A WORK SESSION ON THAT THIRD OR WE DO IT IN THE MORNING OF OR WHATEVER.

IF WE COULD LOOK AT THAT, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD DIRECTION.

DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING BEFORE WE GO AHEAD AND BREAK?

>> NO.

>> OKAY. SINCE WE GOT THIS, NOTICE, THIS ASK FOR A MOTION AND WE'LL ADJOURN.

>> MOTION TO ADJOURN.

>> SECOND.

>> MOTION AND A SECOND.

YOU'RE ADJOURNED. THANK YOU.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.